• 100 Car Freight On Utica Line!!! 10/31/08

  • Discussion related to New York, Susquehanna & Western operations past and present. Also includes some discussion related to Deleware Otsego owned and operated shortlines. Official web site can be found here: NYSW.COM.
Discussion related to New York, Susquehanna & Western operations past and present. Also includes some discussion related to Deleware Otsego owned and operated shortlines. Official web site can be found here: NYSW.COM.

Moderators: GOLDEN-ARM, NJ Vike

  by ut-1
No kidding!! This morning at approx 10:45 a south-bound freight consisting of 100 empty CSX ballast hoppers passed by my office in South Utica. It was powered by CSX #843 with NYSW #3040 providing helper duties at the rear (needed to climb Paris Hill). The Susquehanna will store these cars south of the Sherburne yard; approx 400 additional cars may be stored at this location. Approx 6 miles of usable track exist south of the NYS&W's bridge over the Chenango River in Sherburne before wash-out damage is encountered. Sometimes you really never know what will pass by!!
  by Steve F45
whats the grade % at paris hill? would think that a brand new gevo would be able to pull up 100 empty hoppers.
  by RichM
Come on Steve, I'm sure you've seen the problems Thomas has had with those troublesome trucks on the Island of Sodor.

Welcome back from Atlantic City!
  by Steve F45
lol, where's percy when you need him.

thanks, its good to be back. dont think i needed to give ac anymore of my money.
  by ut-1
The grade from Clayville to Paris Hill is 1.8%. According to Taber's "The Delaware, Lackawanna & Western Railroad In The Twentieth Century", Volume 1, "The Utica Branch had the stiffest main line grade on the railroad....When freight tonnage had been heavier, freights had to be pushed, but by 1950 this was seldom required, and when needed, the train would often 'double the hill', making two trips up the grade" (p. 322). If 3040 was not providing true helper service, it would have been placed at the rear of the freight regardless to be in position to help spot the cars in Sherburne.
  by ricebrianrice
I was doing some math today, and this is a very smart move for NYSW.

Their standard storage rate is $40/day/car.

Lets say 100 cars.
Lets cut CSX a deal, say $5/car/day
Lets say 5 months (till march), 150 days.

100 x 5 x 150 = $75,000

Not bad for track that is not in use.
  by pwewen
I was surprised to see all of those hoppers sitting on the line about 3 miles north of Norwich. There was a person near BOCES who was crossing the tracks there to cut wood. I bet he is not happy now that that tracks are blocked.
  by RichM
Just some idle speculation on storage... no intent to flame...

First, quoting a rate is a rough proposition... especially when ownsership issues between the owner of the rolling stock and the owner of the railbed are considered, as well as the total number of cars and the potential length of stay.

Second, I'll defer to all of you who live or work near the area, as the last time I saw those tracks was quite some time ago. But I am reminded of the "standing derailments" that Penn Central was so infamous for in the early seventies from the weight of the standing cars just pushing the rails out of gauge because the spikes were so loose in the decomposing ties. Not sure is this is a potential scenario there or not.

My only point is that the gross receipts may not be anywhere near that large, and whatever the top line number may be, it's not all profit falling down to the bottom.
  by lvrr325
The NYS&W isn't the Penn Central; the line was good for at least 25 MPH and not excepted track. Storing frieght cars is virtually a zero-overhead expenditure, outside of any taxes the road would be paying on the property anyhow - and the way they have it set up, the NYS&W only owns the track itself, if I remember correctly from previous discussions.

And I kind of think the second unit is to help get the leader out of the way for the final shove in, they don't have any 100-car sidings out there do they? So the lead unit has to be cut off on a siding while the rear unit pushes the train past it.
  by ut-1
Another big south-bound freight passed by my office 11:10 this morning! Powered by NYS&W 2304 & 3040, the train consisted of one covered hopper and 64 empty CSX/Conrail ballast hoppers destined for storage south of Sherburne. The freight tied up traffic for approx 10 minutes on Genesee Street (Utica's main drag) as it slowly made its way south. A blue NYS&W hi-rail brought up the rear. The train's speed was slower than the 100 car freight that passed by here on Halloween, perhaps due to wet rails. Big happenings for a branch line where the trains rarely exceed a dozen cars.
  by lvrr325
Did you notice that starting Wednesday the old coal dock next to the Genesee St. (I think, 5A anyhow) crossing was being torn out? By Wednesday night it was about half gone, I have to think by the end of today there won't be a trace of it.

Are these ballast cars or regular hoppers? There was a long cut of mixed coal hoppers in town Wednesday, some in CSX paint, some in Conrail paint, one of the CR cars looked to be a rotary dump (no bottom doors).
  by JoeCollege
Looks like the Utica branch is returning to it's late-Conrail era use as a long storage track. :(
  by newyorkcentral
I had to say I really wasn't shocked as to where the hopper cars were going, which by the way I saw a string of them by the foodland warehouse on route 12.

with the washout out by Chenago forks/Sherberne its a no brainer as to where these cars are going. :wink:
  by ut-1
The hopper freights are getting shorter: the 2304 & 3040 just passed by the Genesee Street crossing approx 10:55 this AM pulling 23 hoppers. These were probably the hoppers I saw in the siding near the old Scheidelman's Foodland Warehouse this morning. This train was moving much faster than November 13th's "hopper special".
  by newyorkcentral
Does the NYS&W have any plans for these hopper cars like coal or gravel trains? Can anyone confirm that some of the hoppers were from the utica shops? :-D