New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

Moderators: CRail, sery2831

Rbts Stn
Posts: 625
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:09 pm
Location: waiting for an "A" train to Watertown

Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Post by Rbts Stn » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:54 am

Or having the possibility of shutting down the trains remotely . . . or worse, overriding the braking systems.

Yes, I've seen too many spy thrillers

rethcir
Posts: 260
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:51 am

Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Post by rethcir » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:49 am

BandA wrote:No, the MBTA doesn't. But imagine a Chinese version of the NSA listening to every conversation all day long in every car, looking for keywords. Just like Alexa or Google Home. Lots of MIT folks ride the Red Line.
None of the conversations I've ever heard on the Orange Line are of national importance.

andrewjw
Posts: 429
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:48 am

Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Post by andrewjw » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:01 pm

Most research done at schools like MIT is public, and often in collaboration with researchers in other countries, frequently including China. And those who are working on classified projects know not to discuss them in public.

User avatar
StefanW
Posts: 543
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 pm
Location: Lynn, MA / MP 11.53

Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Post by StefanW » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:54 pm

Jeff Gonneville just told the FMCB that the revenue service for the new cars won't be until "early Spring" now due to CCRC / Alstom train control & signaling integration issues.

https://www.mbta.com/events/2019-01-14/ ... rd-meeting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Blue Line is good for Lynn, and Lynn is good for the Blue Line.

My live MBTA real-time mapping apps:
https://sites.harvard.edu/~wuensch/T/subway-map.html
https://sites.harvard.edu/~wuensch/T/commuter-rail-map.html

User avatar
StefanW
Posts: 543
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 pm
Location: Lynn, MA / MP 11.53

Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Post by StefanW » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:58 pm

From the FMCB meeting just now:
Jeff Gonneville wrote:Altsom is now projecting that they will get through this process by mid-March.
and
Jeff Gonneville wrote:It's important to note that there is no issues [sic] that have been identified or found with the vehicles themselves
The Blue Line is good for Lynn, and Lynn is good for the Blue Line.

My live MBTA real-time mapping apps:
https://sites.harvard.edu/~wuensch/T/subway-map.html
https://sites.harvard.edu/~wuensch/T/commuter-rail-map.html

Arborwayfan
Posts: 873
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:27 am
Location: Terre Haute, Indiana

Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Post by Arborwayfan » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:04 pm

Mr. Dooley probably wrote his comments on a computer made in China, or spoke about the on a phone made in China, or near some electronic device made in China. I wonder if he is equally worried about them.

johnpbarlow
Posts: 2112
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:50 pm

Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Post by johnpbarlow » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:02 am

US Senate is getting serious about banning China from being a transit car supplier for the US in the future but would not apply to current Orange Line and Red Line car CRRC production contract (I think):
U.S. Sens. John Cornyn (R-Texas) and Tammy Baldwin (D-Wis.) on March 14 introduced the Transit Infrastructure Vehicle Security Act (S. 846), which proposes to prevent federal funds from being used by transit agencies to purchase rail cars or buses manufactured by Chinese government owned, controlled or subsidized companies.
https://www.progressiverailroading.com/ ... ing--57153

chrisf
Posts: 351
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 9:35 pm

Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Post by chrisf » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:32 am

johnpbarlow wrote:US Senate is getting serious about banning China from being a transit car supplier for the US in the future but would not apply to current Orange Line and Red Line car CRRC production contract (I think)
The MBTA did not use federal funds for this contract, so either way, this would not affect these cars.
What I don't understand about this legislation is this: what US-owned passenger railcar business still exists? (but that's off topic for this discussion.)

User avatar
Tadman
Posts: 9546
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:21 am

Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Post by Tadman » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:26 am

Backshophoss wrote:CSX would overcharge on the freight to from CRRC's shop at Springfield, not counting the switching charges at each end.
Who buys the gons to be used as adapter cars for the moves? CSX or CRRC??
The question of buying/leasing adapter cars is not really a big deal. The movement of subway cars by freight train was SOP until 1985 or so. There are plenty of pictures of it in most major subway cities, IE Chicago, New York, Philly, Boston. Why it stopped, I have no idea. The CTA in Chicago even trucks cars across town sometimes. It seems tragically expensive and wasteful when they could drag 8 across town at night, or ship 50 at a crack via NS or CSX when new.

I do know quite a few subways have severed connections to freight networks. Sometimes by choice, sometimes not. I can't speak to Boston, but Chicago CTA at one time had more than a few connections, and all but one are gone. The C&NW pulled out of the industrial park near Skokie Shops, for example - CTA wasn't given a choice.
Dig the new rr.net Instagram account: @railroad_dot_net

R36 Combine Coach
Posts: 5480
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:51 pm

Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:14 pm

Tadman wrote:The question of buying/leasing adapter cars is not really a big deal. The movement of subway cars by freight train was SOP until 1985 or so. There are plenty of pictures of it in most major subway cities, IE Chicago, New York, Philly, Boston. Why it stopped, I have no idea.

I do know quite a few subways have severed connections to freight networks. Sometimes by choice, sometimes not. I can't speak to Boston, but Chicago CTA at one time had more than a few connections, and all but one are gone. The C&NW pulled out of the industrial park near Skokie Shops, for example - CTA wasn't given a choice.
Delivery of new cars on their own wheels (as cars in mixed freights) ended by 1973, when the last R44s rolled out of St. Louis. From 1975 on, all new cars delivered by rail were on flatcars, starting with R46s at NYCT, WMATA 1000 series from Rohr and the Boeing LRVs/CTA 2400s. This remained the norm for about 25 years. The last cars delivered by rail (flatcar) were NYCT's IRT R142s, on CP from Plattsburgh to NYCT in Brooklyn via Hell Gate.

NYCT has several connections: SBK to NYA/LIRR and NJNY Rail, also Linden Shops to LIRR/NYA. IRT had been connected to New Haven main line at East 180th Street via the former NYWB connector (now severed and partially removed), used for new car deliveries and equipment and supplies into 1970s.
Since my friend continues to chain smoke nonstop, she is probably an Alco.

Robert Paniagua
Posts: 4431
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:11 am
Location: Weymouth, MA 02188

Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Post by Robert Paniagua » Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:17 am

Any word on the Red Line CRRC traincars delivery, still none on T property as far as the RD CRRC cars are concerned
~Robert Paniagua
Moderator: WMATA :: General Railroad Operations

Bolo42
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:40 am

Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Post by Bolo42 » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:13 am

Robert Paniagua wrote:Any word on the Red Line CRRC traincars delivery, still none on T property as far as the RD CRRC cars are concerned
The prototype has not been delivered yet and is only now coming off the line in China.

troffey
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:36 pm

Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Post by troffey » Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:10 pm

I was under the impression that Red Line production won't begin until after the Orange Line order is complete

trains18
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:21 am

Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Post by trains18 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:12 pm

troffey wrote:I was under the impression that Red Line production won't begin until after the Orange Line order is complete
They will start to come in later this year, fall of 2019 as planned and will be coming into service until 2023. Orange line will be coming into service after they fix the signal compatability issues and starts once the issues are fixed through 2022 as planned on the projected schedule. Im not a big fan of china designs but as long as it does the job im happy. I like American made train sets better, not foreign sets. Just like the rotems, these crrs cars will be plagued with problems as they enter service, but every new design comes with issues.

R36 Combine Coach
Posts: 5480
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:51 pm

Re: New Orange and Red Line Car Acquisition Process

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:08 am

trains18 wrote:Just like the rotems, these crrs cars will be plagued with problems as they enter service, but every new design comes with issues.
Did the Blue/Orange cars have teething issues in 1979-80, despite being based off the shelf (PATH PA3)?
Since my friend continues to chain smoke nonstop, she is probably an Alco.

Return to “Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority (MBTA)”