Hurricane Sandy

Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

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jamesinclair
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Hurricane Sandy

Post by jamesinclair » Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:02 pm

I have a question for those of you who have seen NJTransit respond to weather issues in the past. Also, this thread could serve as a general hurricane issues thread.

Looks like Sandy will be a direct hit for southern NJ, and the strongest winds are all north of the eye. With the trees still heavy with leaves, there will be toppling and such.

Basically, assuming wire comes down on Tuesday, how long does NJT usually take to fix it and gets things running again?

Jtgshu
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Re: Hurricane issues and recovery time

Post by Jtgshu » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:23 pm

I think wires coming down are going to be the least of the problems.

1) employees need to be able to GET to work. We live here too, right now Im taking a break from preparing to evacuate myself, and prepping my yard and moving belongings I don't want to get ruined. Most of the access roads to Long Branch were flooded during Hurricane Irene. This was the case many other places as well.
2) trees pulling wires down
3) prolonged power outages
4) Flooding, washouts and other damages to the Right of Way

Just a few issues faced in the coming days.

I think its a pretty good chance that the NJCL will be shut down at some point due to flooding or damage to either the track, catenary or both. Remember the washout in Matawan last year. That was a BIGGIE. Sure it was overshadowed by the Southern Tier being destroyed, but there was still LOTS of damage in NJT land last year as well.

I also think that the newly installed Flood wall in Bound Brook will be closed VERY quickly. That will cut off RVL service at Bound Brook, and trapping equipment in Raritan yard.

Gotta wonder about Trenton flooding again.....

There are also areas on the ACL I can think of that would be prone to damage in a bad storm, severing the line.

And thats just the Newark Division!

Im sure Hoboken Terminal will be flooded at some point, maybe they will put some trains in the Tunnels again, but that will mean nothing into and out of Hoboken, effectively shutting down the lines that go into it.

People shouldn't be commuting or trying to go anywhere anyway, thats why we are in a State of Emergency.....
On the RR, "believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see"
John, aka "JTGSHU" passed away on August 26, 2013. We honor his memory and his devotion to railroading at railroad.net.

jamesinclair
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Re: Hurricane issues and recovery time

Post by jamesinclair » Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:22 pm

I was mostly asking about repair time after the storm, ie, wednesday and thursday.

MBTA1016
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Re: Hurricane issues and recovery time

Post by MBTA1016 » Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:33 pm

Trenton will most likely get flooded again. I heard there are evacuations in NJ and NY, does anyone know how those are going? Stay safe down in the mid-Atlantic.
Josh.W
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airman00
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Re: Hurricane issues and recovery time

Post by airman00 » Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:32 pm

Don't forget Westwood and Hillsdale along the PVL. The K-mart parking lot in westwood always floods as does the kings parking lot in hillsdale. And in addition to this there was a small washout in westwood during Irene last year.

I also posted a thread topic on this in the New Jersey rail forum: http://railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.ph ... 32&start=0

This has the capability to be the worst ever, so everyone please be safe. Being in the tree business I've seen the after effects of storms first hand and it's not pretty.

Jtgshu
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Re: Hurricane issues and recovery time

Post by Jtgshu » Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:12 pm

jamesinclair wrote:I was mostly asking about repair time after the storm, ie, wednesday and thursday.
Well it depends on how much damage there is :)

There are going to be a lot of folks working doing the best they can to get the railroad back in shape and open for service, but it could be a few hours, to a few days. It all depends on the amount of damage there is to not only the railroad, but the areas AROUND the railroad too.
On the RR, "believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see"
John, aka "JTGSHU" passed away on August 26, 2013. We honor his memory and his devotion to railroading at railroad.net.

Amtrak7
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Re: Hurricane issues and recovery time

Post by Amtrak7 » Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:48 pm

NJT prepares to shut:

http://www.njtransit.com/tm/tm_servlet. ... SE_ID=2798

I envision all Southern NJ bus service/the Atlantic City Line/the River Line shutting Sunday night. If Amtrak does as rumor has it and closes the NEC on Monday and Tuesday then the everything will probably be closed.

Patrick Boylan
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Re: Hurricane issues and recovery time

Post by Patrick Boylan » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:21 pm

I had already asked my boss to let me tellecommute Mon and Tue. Usually I do it Fri.
jamesinclair wrote:With the trees still heavy with leaves, there will be toppling and such.
I'd assume since many trees' leaves have turned color already, aren't they likely to shed in high winds? Of course many leaves on the ground can be a problem too.

Steve F45
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Re: Hurricane issues and recovery time

Post by Steve F45 » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:47 pm

Within the first few hours of gusty winds, most of the tree's will be shed of the remaining leaves.

I just hope the port jervis line doesn't face damages like last year.

25Hz
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Re: Hurricane issues and recovery time

Post by 25Hz » Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:30 pm

To touch on a couple of things said all ready and expand a bit...

The leaf issue is 2 fold. One is that there are still leaves on some trees. 60 mph sustained winds with saturated soil = some trees are going to come down leaves or not. The leaves that have changed are dead and will get stripped, most likely all the pretty colors of autumn will be gone by week's end. There could be some ramifications with slippery rail but in this weather that's the least of their concerns. The other part is because so many leaves are on the ground and may be stripped you could get widespread clogs forming in drains especially as small twigs and such get in there. That issue could mean trouble for a few stations/parking lots etc etc.

I expect service to be totally shut down as the storm makes landfall. There is going to be flooding at hoboken and trenton and a number of other points. Added to that the risks of NJT employees may face going to/from work and home. Some of which (like JT need to make storm preparation/evacuation plans.

As far as recovery, they made an extremely speedy fix to all of Irene's damage last summer, but this storm is not Irene. It is going to hit farther south right into the heart of electrified territory, winds will also be much higher and there will likely be more rain as it is a much larger storm.


I have to express how serious this storm is. It will knock power out to many locations, including power to water pumps so you may not have tap water pressure or if there is pressure it may have contamination & require boiling or be completely unsafe boiled or not. I personally expect 2-3 days of no electrical power plus possible cell and landline outages for me & my family here in bucks county. We have a lot of electrical and data lines on poles and millions of trees just waiting to fall on them. Hopefully this storm will fizzle or turn out to sea, but it seems very unlikely at this point as it is being dragged northwest by the other low pressure system to the north.

I hope anyone working out in the storm stays safe, and everyone else try to be prepared and use common sense.
Next stop the square, journal square station next!

morris&essex4ever
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Re: Hurricane issues and recovery time

Post by morris&essex4ever » Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:56 pm

Does anyone remember the March 2001 Snowstorm(of the century) that never happened? http://philadelphiaweather.blogspot.com ... -bust.html There's still time for this storm to lose steam or head out to sea. We can hope right? :)
"To cure the British disease with socialism was like trying to cure leukaemia with leeches." Margaret Thatcher

airman00
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Re: Hurricane issues and recovery time

Post by airman00 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:08 am

25Hz wrote:To touch on a couple of things said all ready and expand a bit...

The leaf issue is 2 fold. One is that there are still leaves on some trees. 60 mph sustained winds with saturated soil = some trees are going to come down leaves or not. The leaves that have changed are dead and will get stripped, most likely all the pretty colors of autumn will be gone by week's end. There could be some ramifications with slippery rail but in this weather that's the least of their concerns. The other part is because so many leaves are on the ground and may be stripped you could get widespread clogs forming in drains especially as small twigs and such get in there. That issue could mean trouble for a few stations/parking lots etc etc.

I expect service to be totally shut down as the storm makes landfall. There is going to be flooding at hoboken and trenton and a number of other points. Added to that the risks of NJT employees may face going to/from work and home. Some of which (like JT need to make storm preparation/evacuation plans.

As far as recovery, they made an extremely speedy fix to all of Irene's damage last summer, but this storm is not Irene. It is going to hit farther south right into the heart of electrified territory, winds will also be much higher and there will likely be more rain as it is a much larger storm.


I have to express how serious this storm is. It will knock power out to many locations, including power to water pumps so you may not have tap water pressure or if there is pressure it may have contamination & require boiling or be completely unsafe boiled or not. I personally expect 2-3 days of no electrical power plus possible cell and landline outages for me & my family here in bucks county. We have a lot of electrical and data lines on poles and millions of trees just waiting to fall on them. Hopefully this storm will fizzle or turn out to sea, but it seems very unlikely at this point as it is being dragged northwest by the other low pressure system to the north.

I hope anyone working out in the storm stays safe, and everyone else try to be prepared and use common sense.

I agree. This storm is going to be bad and this whole NYC metro area is ripe for a "big one". Remember this: for many years they've talked about how one day New York City could get hit with a proverbial "big storm". Usually in that context they talk about the possibility of a Cat 5 hurricane one day. Now sandy is not a cat 5, but is a very large storm in many ways due to the complex nature of how this storm is shaping up. You have to ask yourselves...

What if this is indeed the "big one" that they said for years we could get? Well, if it is we're all in for it. I've seen storm damage first hand, take every precaution nessecary. Mr. 25hz is also right trees will come down leaves or not. Pine trees are especially vulnerable. So be safe, as this thing could be a monster!

JPG76
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Re: Hurricane issues and recovery time

Post by JPG76 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:01 pm

I don't know about ther rest of the system but there are already plans to shut down the PVL sometime after midnight tonight.

acelaphillies
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Re: Hurricane issues and recovery time

Post by acelaphillies » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:45 pm

Well, it's official. All Amtrak NEC and Keystone Corridor trains shut down tomorrow, as reported on Amtrak NEC twitter. https://twitter.com/AmtrakNEC
@AmtrakNEC wrote:All NEC and Keystone trains for 10/29 are cancelled.

MBTA1016
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Re: Hurricane issues and recovery time

Post by MBTA1016 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:52 pm

They only canceled trains for tomorrow. That's intersting. You would think Amtrak would cancel trains till Wednesday to be on the safe side. Cantanary will be a big problem besides flooding for Nj transit as well as Amtrak.
Josh.W
Formally mbta fan
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