Oregon buys 2 Talgo trainsets

[Vincent]

ODOT has just announced that they will purchase 2 new Talgo trainsets for Cascades service. The announcement says that the trains will be delivered in 2012 and will be used to enhance service in the Willamette Valey (Portland to Eugene)

The Oregon Department of Transportation has negotiated the purchase of two new passenger trains from Talgo-America. Each train seats 285 people and will provide continued Amtrak Cascades passenger service in the Pacific Northwest rail corridor between Eugene and Vancouver, British Columbia.

The trains, which cost $36.6 million, will be assembled at a new Talgo plant in Wisconsin with a majority of American-made components. There are 13 cars per train. The Oregon Transportation Commission approved use of American Recovery and Reinvestment Act stimulus funds for the purchase on July 23, 2009. By pooling the train purchase with Wisconsin, Oregon saved about $6 million.

Apparently these trains will be added to the current pool of 5 trainsets, owned by Amtrak and WSDOT.

[jstolberg]

Talgo has narrowed the choices for manufacturing plants in Wisconsin to 6. Two in Milwaukee, two in Janesville, one in Appleton and one in Racine.
http://www.journaltimes.com/news/local/ ... 03286.html

The plant is expected to employ 400 workers. Judging from an advertisement for a Human Resources Manager placed today, Milwaukee seems to be favored.
http://msn.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/ ... R7CSC8LJ72

[Rtrain]

Great news and it's awesome that they will be delivered so soon.
13 car set is what 4 of the 5 current units are and their capacity is 224 with and ADA car 4 and like 240 with a regular car 4. Hmm.

[Vincent]

I think the 285 number is a generic number for a Talgo trainset, but the Cascades have lower density seating and more legroom than the generic model. IIRC, there are 8 rows in each coach, but there's room for 9 rows with tighter spacing.

Reading through the notes of the Oregon Transportation Commission, it looks like the $$$$ to buy these trains came from underspending on ARRA-funded highway and bridge repair projects. With a Feb 28 deadline to allocate the road and bridge money looming, Oregon made a deal with Talgo to buy trainsets rather than return the money to the Feds. It looks like WA also earned money in the high speed rail grant process to buy 2 trainsets, so we may have a few extra trainsets rolling around (or money for something else) in a couple of years.

[Gilbert B Norman]

I think it is just great to learn of the purchase by Oregon of train sets that have unique technology to enable faster scheduled time over the intended routes than would be the case with conventional equipment. I think it is also great to learn that Oregon did not set as a condition that Talgo open a facility within Oregon and that my earlier expressed concerns of a "hell on wheels' business plan are at this time unfounded.

Finally, it is also interesting to learn that Talgo intends to place their facility well within Wisconsin, apparently ruling out locations such as Kenosha, Racine, or Beloit. After all, you don't need those folk residing in Illinois coming up there and stealing those jobs (also paying no Wisconsin income taxes on those wages owing to a reciprocity agreement between the two states).

[D.Carleton]

So, for the record, we are now up to six trainsets on order from Talgo. That's six trainsets from a facility that has yet to be established. Still, how many intercity trainsets are on order from Bombardier, Alstom, Siemens, etc.?

[bmichel5581]

they're is a rumor floating around that Washington will be buying one or two more talgo sets....so, we could be up to eight.

[electricron]

I thought Missouri had also ordered two Talgo trainsets; maybe Missouri only asked for some ARRA funding for two Talgo trainsets.....

Wisconsin only ordered two Talgo trainsets for Hiawatha service (Milwaukee to Chicago), and stated their desire to order two more if the Madison to Milwaukee service also received ARRA (Tiger) funds, which I believed was granted. Therefore, I expect Wisconsin will order two more Talgo trainsets soon.

So my unofficial total is:
4 trainsets for Wisonsin (2 confirmed)
2 trainsets for Oregon (2 confirmed)
2 trainsets for Washington
2 trainsets for Missouri
That's not including the 5 existing Talgo trainsets in service already for the Cascades trains.

I believe Illinois will be wanting to buy several Talgo trainsets too. Ohio may or may not buy Talgo trainsets, they have expressed interest buying US Railcar DMUs in the past. If everyone else buys Talgo trainsets in the MidWest Region, I expect Michigan will too.

[DutchRailnut]

what was that about chickens ????
http://esl.about.com/library/glossary/bldef_246.htm

[D.Carleton]

what was that about chickens ????
http://esl.about.com/library/glossary/bldef_246.htm

Once again, very sage words from Ja'ap. All of this means nothing until that first trainset turns its first wheel in service.

[MudLake]

I'd like to buy a couple of Talgo sets, too. I might even more money than Illinois. The whole concept of needs, wants, and resources obviously must be factored into the equation.

[AMTK1007]

I believe, but cannot confirm that Missouri, Illinios and Michigan are also considering cars based on the Califronia car model....

In my opinion, that car makes more sense in the midwest..

Wisconsin Missed the boat by ordering talgos, because nothing significant will be gained by using them, EVEN if they are used going to Minneapolis/St Paul. the time gained would only ammount to 5-6 minutes, from what I have been told.

[EricL]

All I can think, Mr. V.H., is "at least it'll be better than the junk we're running now"... especially now that WI is also saying that they're buying their own locomotives...

A certain amount of this Talgo-Wisconsin deal is simply political pandering. But I am a bit surprised that the proposed facility has already received its first out-of-state order, before said facility has even been built. I realize that this new plant will be primarily for assembly - much like Super Steel was for the Metra bilevels - but it's better than nothing, and I feel it's a step in the right direction. If only they could figure out where they want to put it. (Might I suggest the site of the old Solvay Coke Plant... plenty of good rail access there. Wait, no, they want to build condos there, nevermind. I guess Beloit/Janesville is in greater need of the jobs, anyway.)

[electricron]

Diesel powered Talgo trainsets can achieve 125 mph, Superliners maximum speeds are 100 mph. That's a 25 mph difference in top speeds. In the Midwest, 110 mph is what they're planning for maximum speed. That's still a 10 mph difference. Talgo trainsets can also take curves at faster speeds too with their lower center of gravity and passive tilt wheel sets.......

For comparison purposes, look at Amtrak's timetables for the Cascades and Coast Starlight. Specifically, Portland to Seattle, where most of WDOT's track improvements have occurred.

Cascades Train 501 (southbound) 3 hours and 30 minutes (Talgo trainset)
Coast Starlight Train 11(southbound) 4 hours and 5 minutes (Superliner train)
Total time savings of 35 minutes over a distance of 187 miles, where both trains maximum speeds are 79 mph because of the condition of BNSF tracks, and where Train 501 stops at an additional station........

Of course, the distance between Chicago and Milwaukee is much lower at only 86 miles, slightly less than half the distance. So the time savings should be about half as much as the Cascades, around 15 minutes or so. But the distances between Chicago and St. Louis is 284 miles, therefore the time savings could be twice as much as the Cascades, over an hour....
And that's limiting the speeds of the Midwest trains to the same 79 mph the Cascades trains are limited. Imagine the time savings if maximum speeds were different between Talgo and Superliner trains...

[DutchRailnut]

untill we get full blown PTC everywhere, the speed on all passenger trains is 79 mph.
The Talgo X with diesel powerheads has never been built (not to FRA standards anyway)