MNRR West of Hudson (WoH) Study - Stewart Airport

Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

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pnaw10
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Re: WOH Study - Stewart / Direct NYC Access Public Meeting

Post by pnaw10 » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:44 pm

We don't need "everything just bulldozed" but there's a point where the true need (or demand) for a service needs to outweigh the NIMBYs or the tree-hugging hippies. Instead of doing dozens of studies, maybe we should just have a referendum vote on each project. If most people vote yes, then the project gets built. Otherwise, it doesn't. Majority rule, the foundation of democracy. Wow, what a concept!
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Re: WOH Study - Stewart / Direct NYC Access Public Meeting

Post by Jeff Smith » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:50 am

To nitpick, the US is a republic, not a democracy. Many have said that a democracy is mob rule, i.e. the tyranny of democracy. Don't get me wrong, I basically agree, but do you really want 50% plus one deciding everything? Kelo went too far, but would NYC be better off with Westway? Majority rule is fine, until they come to you and want to take your property for some allegedly public use, or don't want you to use your property for some perfectly acceptable use. Would you want a super-highway in your backyard? Or a railroad? Or an airport? It's all very subjective. A third track here, a passing siding there, yes, they serve the public good. But there is an impact to be considered.
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Re: WOH Study - Stewart / Direct NYC Access Public Meeting

Post by Otto Vondrak » Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:53 pm

Stick to the trains, leave the politics behind.
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Re: WOH Study - Stewart / Direct NYC Access Public Meeting

Post by Jeff Smith » Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:01 am

Aye aye Captain Otto. I think we can safely say that it takes too long to study train expansions.
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Re: WOH Study - Stewart / Direct NYC Access Public Meeting

Post by Dieter » Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:19 pm

Otto Vondrak wrote:Stick to the trains, leave the politics behind.
Unfortunately, we can't leave the politics behind, because the country has gone bust. Anything you see in the next two years, good or bad, gain or loss, will be politically motivated. We have to be vigilant, and learn to read between the lines as never before.
This factor narrows the field of the "Study" down significantly. Politicians are now in the proverbial bear trap of cutting costs, while renovating crumbling infrastructure, so what does that mean here?

Simple. Instead of what is needed; restoration of rail from Kingston to Hoboken via Stewart, they will be looking at the old railway bridge, and putting in "Light Rail" (Yeuch!) with a great big ELEVATOR to bring people down to The Water Level Route.

Sarge, you said why have the meeting in Newburgh? What would you suggest? It may be the only place WOH close to Stewart and those surrounding communities with a conference room in a hotel where the event can be staged. I would suggest Kingston, however, I get the idea that the Suits don't have Kingston in the plan. Look for a trolley over the Hudson, or some kind of link to the Erie Main and Hoboken.

Then again, imagine the hassle of getting off the plane at Stewart, getting to the rail, getting off in Hoboken, taking the PATH to Manhattan with the luggage........ TAXI!! It will be interesting on which direction they are thinking of expanding Metro North (that's what it is, ultimately) and I bet it will also hinge on how large a crowd they get, and what is said. In order to get WOH trains running, there has to be enough people riding those trains to keep making money, and so that east upper Hudson traffic (Harmon/Pokipse) doesn't suddenly become a money loser.

We're still waiting for The Lackawanna Cutoff to be reconstructed 16 years (and counting!) after the footings were poured for the new stations. It will be 20 years at least before you can ride anything on rails into Stewart.

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Re: WOH Study - Stewart / Direct NYC Access Public Meeting

Post by isaksenj » Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:46 am

News report of the meeting:

http://www.midhudsonnews.com/News/Decem ... Dec08.html

Now it's not just rail:

"We're looking at short-term solutions in terms of the needs for the airport, as well as long-term solutions," said Elisa Van der Linde, project manager with MTA. We're looking at rail access at Stewart, as well as rubber tiered vehicles, as well as ferry services, light rail services. We're not just looking at rail access. We're looking at multiple modes and alternatives that will serve the needs of the airport as the airport continues to develop into the future."

Sounds like fertile ground for yet more studies.

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Stewart airport/newburgh line

Post by northjerseybuff » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:36 pm

So when is this line suppose to be up and running by? Also where will it split off from the tier? I had read somewhere that a 2nd track west of CP sterling on the tier was going to be a part of this new service?
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metrony
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Re: Stewart airport/newburgh line

Post by metrony » Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:46 pm

More like 2100, if that even. Who really knows what's going to happen. The only way for it work correctly is double track the port jervis line and when the new tunnel under the hudson is built so customers can have a one side ride.

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Re: Stewart airport/newburgh line

Post by northjerseybuff » Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:24 am

Weren't meetings held a few months ago? I thought this project was moving along...no?
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Re: Stewart airport/newburgh line

Post by DutchRailnut » Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:14 am

no, no progress, last credible writeup was in 2007.
http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.d ... /708190330
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Re: Stewart airport/newburgh line

Post by Otto Vondrak » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:52 am

northjerseybuff wrote:So when is this line suppose to be up and running by? Also where will it split off from the tier? I had read somewhere that a 2nd track west of CP sterling on the tier was going to be a part of this new service?
Last week, man. Didn't anyone tell you? Sorry. :-)
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northjerseybuff
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Re: Stewart airport/newburgh line

Post by northjerseybuff » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:24 am

back in march or april I thought they had meetings at a hotel in newburgh with the plans for the line
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Re: Stewart airport/newburgh line

Post by Jeff Smith » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:54 am

Very premature to be discussing what will "happen" with this line. Right now they are only scoping possibilities and gaining public input. It's in the very preliminary stage.

For the traffic that Stewart generates, a bus shuttle is far more appropriate and far less expensive. It works at BWI, right? And BWI is a fair amount busier. I would think a connection to LGA would provide a lot more bang for the buck.
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Otto Vondrak
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Re: Stewart airport/newburgh line

Post by Otto Vondrak » Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:33 am

northjerseybuff wrote:back in march or april I thought they had meetings at a hotel in newburgh with the plans for the line
Anyone can make plans. So far, no budget and no construction contracts awarded. Believe me, when this thing becomes reality, it won't be kept a secret.
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Re: Stewart airport/newburgh line

Post by SecaucusJunction » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:36 am

I'm sure this project isnt dead, but its got a lot of things going against it at the moment. First off, the MTA is broke and if they hadn't gotten that bail out a few weeks ago, I dont know if we would have seen any progress on this over the next decade. Second, due to the recession, airports are less worried about congestion so this is probably not a priority right now. They are actually worrying about Stewart's ridership in 2009, fearing it will be the worst year in a long time. While this is happening, its probably not a good idea to go high profile on a rail link. Like other things, I'm sure Stewart and the other airports will bounce back when the economy recovers and then you'll hear more about progress.

I'm not sure that Stewart Airport would generate enough business to have a dedicated train running there like they are planning. The best idea would be to have a light rail spur or monorail at a station north of Salisbury. Then they could just have people use the same trains that run to Port Jervis.

I would suspect, also that with ARC coming to fruition in the next 7 years or so, MTA will probably be putting money into the PJ Line for some double track and signal improvements. That project should really help ridership on the line.
I think it may be possible that NJ Transit might not be the perfect, infallible organization that most people assume it is.

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