Southeast (formerly Brewster North) Station

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PC1100
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Re: Southeast Station

Post by PC1100 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:42 pm

DutchRailnut wrote:Brewster North was opened in 1983
Brewster North was open a few years earlier than this. There's an old topic on this forum titled "25th Anniversary of Brewster North/Southeast station" in which it's mentioned that the station opened on Nov. 30, 1980. Lou Grogan's "The Coming of the New York & Harlem RR" has some photos from 1982 of the original "station," which appears to have consisted of two low level platforms, one on the west side of the tracks and a wide center platform, a glass waiting shelter on the west side of the tracks, and fluorescent light fixtures like those installed at many stations on the Harlem and Hudson Lines in the '70s. Interestingly, according to Grogan the station opened in September of 1979 with "limited service," with "full service" not starting until January 4, 1982. Based on this it sounds as though the station was originally only served by the Dover Plains shuttles. Can anyone clarify? Other photos show the high level platform being built in 1983, so the old station apparently didn't last very long.

It's interesting to note that when the current platform opened it was unique compared to the other stations done as part of the '83-'84 electrification project. There were no stairways, elevators nor overpass at the south end from the parking lot to the platform as there currently is. The access to the platform was at the north end via a ramp and a small stairway from track level, which you had to walk across track 2 to get to. It was definitely still like that when I saw it back in 1988, but I don't know how much longer it stayed like that.

pnaw10
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Re: Southeast Station

Post by pnaw10 » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:00 am

PC1100 wrote:Based on this it sounds as though the station was originally only served by the Dover Plains shuttles. Can anyone clarify? Other photos show the high level platform being built in 1983, so the old station apparently didn't last very long.
Can't really answer this one too well, other than to say the schedule I have from 1972 shows the line divided very similar to the way it's divided today. (The bulk of the action is between GCT and NWP, with a decent amount of service to Brewster, then infrequent shuttles for the extreme upper stations.) The only exception is that passengers would change trains at Brewster back then, as opposed to Southeast. I find it kind of odd, considering the third rail ended at North White Plains back then... so you'd have people changing from one diesel train to another. Even one Saturday northbound train that originated at NWP would require a change at Brewster.

If I had to hazard a guess, it's probably because the Upper Harlem was pretty rural back then (parts of it still are today) and didn't have many passengers. No sense in sending a full trains' worth of cars all the way up to Dover Plains, when you could condense it down to just a single RDC. Considering there's a big fat Penn Central logo on the front cover, I'd imagine cost savings was a bigger factor than whether or not people had to change trains twice to get from one end of the line to the other.

Back to the original question, based on what you said, I guess Brewster North was indeed just shuttles at first, and then took over as the "shuttle transfer point" when third-rail service was extended in 1984. Pretty interesting; I was always under the impression the station was always high-level, to go along with the electrification extension. It wasn't until this thread started that I learned the station was actually built in 1980 -- and with low-level platforms, no less!
PC1100 wrote:It's interesting to note that when the current platform opened it was unique compared to the other stations done as part of the '83-'84 electrification project. There were no stairways, elevators nor overpass at the south end from the parking lot to the platform as there currently is. The access to the platform was at the north end via a ramp and a small stairway from track level, which you had to walk across track 2 to get to. It was definitely still like that when I saw it back in 1988, but I don't know how much longer it stayed like that.
Hmm... weird. I have at least one picture from 1995 showing the overpass was there... though I don't remember whether there were elevators at that time.
Here's one of them: http://www.pnaw10.com/wpg2?g2_itemId=3623
I even remember trying to take pictures from the overpass, but my el-cheapo film camera back in the day didn't cooperate too well with the scratched, tinted windows.

I don't remember a ramp or walkway across track 2 -- but I'm not saying you're wrong about them still being in use in 1998. I didn't shoot anything at that end of the platform in 1995, so I can't prove or disprove it. However, you may be interested to know the ramp and stairs are still visible underneath the current platform:
http://www.pnaw10.com/wpg2?g2_itemId=2782

I was wondering what the heck the deal was with those stairs... now I know. That former west-side platform is now separated from the tracks by a chain-link fence (I think it was in 1995 too, but none of my pictures show that side of the station). It was acting as a sidewalk to let folks get from the present-day overpass to the northern end of the parking lot without having to walk in traffic, but as you can see here, that is no longer the case. The sidewalk is closed because they've got a bunch of temporary bridges to allow high-level boarding from the west side. The bridges looked a bit weather-worn, and they were boarded up... so I guess their initial duty is over with, but "someone" must have decided it wise to leave them there in case of future need.
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DutchRailnut
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Re: Southeast (formerly Brewster North) Station

Post by DutchRailnut » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:44 am

The ramp at north end of Brewster north was gone when I qualified in 1989, it was covered over by platform extension, it is still visible under the platform.
In 1989 the overpass and elevators were in service too.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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mkm4
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Re: Southeast Station

Post by mkm4 » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:12 am

pnaw10 wrote: The sidewalk is closed because they've got a bunch of temporary bridges to allow high-level boarding from the west side. The bridges looked a bit weather-worn, and they were boarded up... so I guess their initial duty is over with, but "someone" must have decided it wise to leave them there in case of future need.
Though they never use them, they do keep them in working condition. You see that they've been updated sometimes.
A few years ago, there was one conductor on an AM train that would open one door that faced the walkways, so that you could board that way instead of going over the bridge. That was nice, too bad he stopped. Some idiot probably complained.

Erie-Lackawanna
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Re: Southeast Station

Post by Erie-Lackawanna » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:43 am

mkm4 wrote:
pnaw10 wrote:Some idiot probably complained.
Or got hurt...and if not, even the risk of someone getting hurt is enough to make it an inadvisable action.

Jim

RearOfSignal
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Re: Southeast (formerly Brewster North) Station

Post by RearOfSignal » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:12 am

The ramps are still used from time to time. If there are bustitutions on the upper Harlem trains spot for the ramps on track 2 to let passengers off into the parking lot. During the summer there are also some youth groups that ride from GCT to Southeast and take buses to the camps, here also the train is spotted so the kids & their luggage -some with special needs can get from the train to the buses. Since the platform at Southeast is EXACTLY 8 cars to the inch, an 8 car train can not spot for both the platform and the ramps so the ramps are only used when really needed.
Hurry up and wait at the signal!

PC1100
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Re: Southeast (formerly Brewster North) Station

Post by PC1100 » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:25 pm

pnaw10 wrote: Hmm... weird. I have at least one picture from 1995 showing the overpass was there... though I don't remember whether there were elevators at that time.

I don't remember a ramp or walkway across track 2 -- but I'm not saying you're wrong about them still being in use in 1998. I didn't shoot anything at that end of the platform in 1995, so I can't prove or disprove it.
I realize that everything had been changed by 1998. It was 1988 when I saw the walkway, stairs, and ramp in service. As I recall it was summer, and I can still remember seeing an SPV-2000 waiting at the platform on track 1 for its connecting train from GCT to arrive. It was probably a weekend, and looking back at a 1988 timetable I guess I was lucky to see it, as there were still only 4 southbound and 3 northbound Brewster North-Dover Plains shuttles on weekends back then. Of course there was also still only one train every two hours northbound and southbound in the late morning/early afternoon and in the evening on weekends between GCT and Brewster North back then. Nice photos by the way. The one showing the stairs and ramp is from the identical angle as one in Grogan's book showing the platform under construction in 1983.
DutchRailnut wrote:The ramp at north end of Brewster north was gone when I qualified in 1989, it was covered over by platform extension, it is still visible under the platform. In 1989 the overpass and elevators were in service too.
Based on this the construction of the overpass, stairs, and elevators must have taken place sometime in late 1988 or early 1989. It's interesting how the design of this overpass is slightly different compared to those at the stations from Valhalla-Brewster, despite being built only a few years later.
RearOfSignal wrote: Since the platform at Southeast is EXACTLY 8 cars to the inch, an 8 car train can not spot for both the platform and the ramps so the ramps are only used when really needed.
This raises another question. Considering the platform extension DutchRailnut mentioned, was the high-level platform originally only six-carlengths?

DutchRailnut
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Re: Southeast (formerly Brewster North) Station

Post by DutchRailnut » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:34 am

Officialy the platform at Brewster north is 6 cars, due to elevator extention and cover over of the ramp the platform got longer but not officially.
I believe in employee schedule the lenght still shows as 6 cars, and to put 8 cars on it is really tight.
it barely fits from last door to first door barely on the cement.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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RearOfSignal
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Re: Southeast (formerly Brewster North) Station

Post by RearOfSignal » Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:10 am

In the ETT track 1 is 7 cars, track 2 is 8 cars.
Hurry up and wait at the signal!

PC1100
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Re: Southeast (formerly Brewster North) Station

Post by PC1100 » Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:08 pm

I just thought that I'd share with everyone some information that I found about the limited service at Brewster North in its early days. This is from a Harlem Line timetable effective September 17, 1979 and revised August 3, 1981.

To begin, through service between Brewster North and GCT was operated on weekdays only and consisted of three peak southbound morning trains that originated at Brewster North (departing there at 5:57, 6:36, and 7:33 AM) and three peak northbound evening trains that terminated there (having departed GCT at 4:39, 5:39, and 6:00 PM). All other trains operating above North White Plains originated or terminated at Brewster, with the connection to the Pawling and Dover Plains shuttles still done at Brewster. All of the shuttles stopped at Brewster North on their way to/from Pawling or Dover Plains.

What I found most interesting is that there were four mid-day shuttle runs on weekdays that operated ONLY between Brewster and Brewster North. Train #925 arrived at Brewster from GCT at 11:22 AM, making a connection with shuttle train #2925 which then arrived at Brewster North at 11:29 AM and did not go any farther north. At 11:45 AM shuttle train #2960 departed Brewster North, connecting at Brewster with #960 which departed for GCT at 12:00 PM. Train #929 then arrived at Brewster from GCT at 12:22 PM, making a connection with shuttle #2929 which arrived at Brewster North at 12:29 PM and also did not go any farther north. At 12:45 PM shuttle #2964 departed Brewster North, connecting at Brewster with #964 which departed for GCT at 1:00 PM. Traditional shuttle operations to/from Pawling or Dover Plains resumed with the next shuttle train, #2933 which made a connection with #933 (from GCT) at Brewster at 1:22 PM.

The next timetable I have is dated March 7, 1983 and shows service north of NWP exclusively. Nearly all of the trains which previously originated or terminated at Brewster had been extended to Brewster North (the exception being one southbound weekday evening train) and the transfer point to/from the shuttles changed to Brewster North. Based on the January 4, 1982 date that Grogan points to as the start of "full service" at Brewster North it seems that it must have been in place for over a year when this timetable came out. Also, a photo in his book from May of 1982 shows a connection being made at Brewster North, so the station was definately already the transfer point prior to the completion of the electrification project.

Can anyone explain why through service to/from Brewster North was only operated on a limited basis when the station first opened?

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Re: Southeast (formerly Brewster North) Station

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:30 pm

PC1100 wrote:Can anyone explain why through service to/from Brewster North was only operated on a limited basis when the station first opened?
It is not uncommon in practice to provide limited service only when a new station or route is established, followed by full service several months later. This is usually done as a trial program for the new service, determining ridership and volume.
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HalMallon
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Re: Southeast (formerly Brewster North) Station

Post by HalMallon » Wed May 09, 2012 7:51 am

Metro-North seeks 500 more parking spots in Southeast

http://www.lohud.com/article/20120507/N ... ck_check=1

"SOUTHEAST — Metro-North Railroad wants to build 500 more spaces next to its Southeast train station in Putnam County and is offering to fix a long-closed bridge over its tracks as part of the project.

But town officials have yet to sign an agreement with the railroad about the project and have raised questions about the process."

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