Hoosac Tunnel Discussion & News

[NHV 669]

Train has made its power swap and headed west from HJ, as posted elsewhere by a local observer.

[JoeCollege]

Can anyone point me to a good map of the region so I can get a sense of these moves and what they'll look like? I haven't found one that seems to accurately depict all of the involved properties, but then again, I don't know the area or involved lines well enough to know if I what I find is accurate....

[NHV 669]

Eastbounds would divert onto the B&R at HJ, head north to Rutland. Head east/south down the GMRC to BF, then south onto the CV until they reach the Conn. River line in Northfield, MA, taking that back to ED. Westbounds, the same in reverse like last night.

http://www.vermontrailway.com/maps/vtr_map.html

[MEC407]

From WWLP:

NORTH ADAMS, Mass. (WWLP) – The Hoosac Tunnel is currently closed to trains because of debris on the tracks.

Pan Am railways Executive Vice President Cynthia Scarano told 22News that the track is temporarily out of service. Scarano said there was a washout involving dirt and rocks, but would not classify it as a collapse of the structure. The company says it is a track and maintenance review situation.

Structural engineers who specialize in railroad tunnels have been called in for an inspection and to make an evaluation. Pan Am will make a plan on rerouting train traffic and repairs pending the result of the evaluation.

Read more at: https://www.wwlp.com/news/hoosac-tunnel ... valuation/

[Backshophoss]

This collapse might turn into a long term rehab of the tunnel,if all of the brick liner needs to be replaced.
Might be a good time to rebuild to clear double stacks if possible.

[MEC407]

Something like this was bound to happen eventually. The drainage issues have been problematic for many years and certainly weren't going to get better on their own. The tunnel is 145 years old; 150th anniversary coming up in five years.

[jaymac]

To be Captain Obvious, the NS response should provide a metric for commitment to PAS.

[bostontrainguy]

This collapse might turn into a long term rehab of the tunnel,if all of the brick liner needs to be replaced.
Might be a good time to rebuild to clear double stacks if possible.

Yeah I thought the same thing. This may accelerate the double-stack project so could it be a good thing in the long run?

[NellsChoo]

One wonders just what the inspection schedule/process is for the tunnel these days. Better than under the "B&M" alone, I hope.

[J.D. Lang]

From the books I've read on the Hoosac the whole western 1/3 of the tunnel had to go through a lot of very unstable rock with lots of water penetration hence the need to brick arch for a good part of that section. Those brick linings must be pretty deteriorated after all those years of water, coal and diesel smoke. This could be an indication that things are starting to fail which doesn't bode well.

Question, what ever happened to the state studies on the rehab and DS clearance project from years back? If this tunnel is in this bad of shape I hope that MassDot can help with this as they did on the B&A with their DS clearances.

[Safetee]

it might be an ideal time to consider replacing the the conventional track system with StarTrak concrete track modules. the StarTrak system provides a more stable track modulus and can facilitate lowering the track structure by a foot.

[Pj]

You do realize their products are essentially grade crossings, pits, inspections and the such? They are not geared towards miles of mainline. Nor do they permit drainage that is needed and that if you have a wheel down or with defect, you are ripping up a bunch on concrete - whereas you can swap out a wood tie and tamp
Ballast without much of an issue.

We recently had a wheel down incident where concrete ties were installed and all had to be scrapped. With the solution you presented, it would have been a much costly repair.

[Safetee]

well it seems to work well at mount whittier
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcKkGGF ... ex=37&t=0s

[Pj]

It’s a vehicle / train tunnel and is designed for drainage and has other features that allows it.

Hoosac does not.

[Pj]

I’ll put it this way - I operate over Sherman Hill. Our twin bore Hermosa tunnel is under 2500ft long, has maybe 50ft of earth on top, is a dry climate - and we have water draining from the roof year round.

It took MOW over a month to try to improve drainage for the water that comes out of there to replace ties and track - and we still have water that empties out on both end.

The Hoosaic is miles long, under much more earth, is more porous - and experiences less cold that we do / so water / ice and the actual composition of the earth is a giant sponge that leaks.

SP delt with many ice jams in the tunnels/snow sheds that hav derailed cars and locomotive. They went back to simple ballast and operations.

Just pouring concrete that will not cure correctly and running tonnage and trains more sizable than what ARR runs isn’t a comparison.