SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

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MikeBPRR
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:51 pm
Location: Media, PA

Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by MikeBPRR »

rcthompson04 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:46 am
njt/mnrrbuff wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:49 pm
Septa Regional Rail will never serve West Chester anymore. The right of way, presently used by the West Chester Railroad, is very twisty, making it not viable at all for quick daily rail service. On the other hand, West Chester Railroad is looking at running some trips to connect to Septa trains at Wawa, when it opens up.
I have a hard time with the “winding” argument because commuter service was operated to West Chester until the 1980s. If Silverliner IVs handled it back then why couldn’t they handle it now?

I am not the hugest fan at coming into West Chester through Media though. The West Chester station would be the closest to my house, but I would still have a quicker ride from Malvern or Exton even with the drive. Trying to make it work via the Mainline as I described would be a better option in my opinion.
The study SEPTA published last year said that trains would make it to Suburban between 65 and 75 minutes of leaving West Chester. Locals would take closer to 75, and the expresses from Media to Morton or from Primos to University City would take closer to 65. Even when you factor in the drive to Exton or Malvern, there's no way that is time-competitive with the Great Valley Flyer - nothing beats the 40-45 minutes from Exton/Malvern to Suburban. The locals or semi-expresses on the Paoli/Thorndale Line are another story, though, and it definitely matches the 104/MFL transfer.

I've always thought that a restored West Chester Branch would be just as beneficial to the reverse commuters. A lot of residents of Delco or Philly would greatly benefit from the train, especially if they work in Chester County government or if they take classes at WCU. I also could see a 200-series bus connecting either the downtown West Chester station or West Chester/Nields Street with the Goshen Corporate Campus. It's probably not as practical for those commuting downtown (barring the introduction of one or two Media-University City express trains that I seem to recall from Google Images searches of old timetables), but it could work very well for inter-suburb commutes or reverse commutes.

But Middletown Station? Elwyn is already in Middletown and is probably more central in Middletown Township than is The Artist Formerly Known as Wawa Station. Why not Middletown/Wawa? [/yelling at cloud]
"I know nothing, nothing..." - Sgt. Schultz

SRC90
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 7:41 am

Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by SRC90 »

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:49 pm
Septa Regional Rail will never serve West Chester anymore. The right of way, presently used by the West Chester Railroad, is very twisty, making it not viable at all for quick daily rail service. On the other hand, West Chester Railroad is looking at running some trips to connect to Septa trains at Wawa, when it opens up.
I'm a WCRR volunteer and this is news to me. Not sure if it's just a railfan rumor or something floated by someone else as a "what if...", but it's not being seriously planned or discussed.

NorthPennLimited
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:15 am

Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by NorthPennLimited »

The news showed a ribbon cutting ceremony for the new Paoli Station.

It looks like they put down a high platform on top of the inside tracks. The signals on the overhead bridge are gone as well. Did they also reconfigure the Interlocking? I would assume the inside tracks connect to the outside tracks with a simple turnout now.

It’s been a while since I was out that way. Photos courtesy of the Delco Times newspaper.

https://www.delcotimes.com/news/ribbon- ... c72e6.html

rcthompson04
Posts: 477
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:32 am

Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by rcthompson04 »

NorthPennLimited wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:39 pm
The news showed a ribbon cutting ceremony for the new Paoli Station.

It looks like they put down a high platform on top of the inside tracks. The signals on the overhead bridge are gone as well. Did they also reconfigure the Interlocking? I would assume the inside tracks connect to the outside tracks with a simple turnout now.

It’s been a while since I was out that way. Photos courtesy of the Delco Times newspaper.

https://www.delcotimes.com/news/ribbon- ... c72e6.html
Tracks 2 and 3 end at the east side of the station with interlockings and stubs east of the station. On the west side there remains an interlocking, but only two tracks go to Malvern. Work continues on the tracks at Paoli and west as has been causing bus substitution west of Paoli some weekends this summer for SEPTA.

rcthompson04
Posts: 477
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:32 am

Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by rcthompson04 »

Levittown remodel/rebuild completed:

http://levittownnow.com/2019/10/03/new- ... al-change/

NorthPennLimited
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:15 am

Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by NorthPennLimited »

Levittown is in a great location for a park & ride for NY commuters from Bucks & Montgomery County. It would save an extra 15-20 minutes driving to Hamilton Station or Trenton (and bridge tolls.

It’s a shame NJT can’t extend service to Levittown from NY Penn. The station is in perfect proximity to I-295, I-276, and I-95

Another great park and ride for NY commuters would be if NJT extended service down the ex PRR Trenton Cutoff to Willow Grove. The tracks go over the intersection of Rt 611 and the Pennsylvania Turnpike

JeffK
Posts: 1661
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:05 pm
Location: Western suburbs

Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by JeffK »

Yet another would be to consolidate the Radnor RRD and P&W stations, with a park & ride off 476. It seems ridiculous to have 3 modes of transportation within maybe 1000' of each other but no connected access.

Of course the idea's been proposed before and hits a wall of NIMBYism every time, esp. from the North Wayne "Protective" Association. Makes you wonder what they're trying to protect ....
Requiem for it's/its, your/you're, than/then, less/fewer. They were once such nice words with such different meanings...

mcgrath618
Posts: 512
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:11 pm

Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by mcgrath618 »

I know it's technically not SEPTA's doing, but Ardmore Station is being prepped for demolition at the moment. The entire parking lot is fenced off in anticipation of the parking garage.

Suburban Station
Posts: 3436
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:11 pm

Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by Suburban Station »

NorthPennLimited wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:39 pm
The news showed a ribbon cutting ceremony for the new Paoli Station.

It looks like they put down a high platform on top of the inside tracks. The signals on the overhead bridge are gone as well. Did they also reconfigure the Interlocking? I would assume the inside tracks connect to the outside tracks with a simple turnout now.

It’s been a while since I was out that way. Photos courtesy of the Delco Times newspaper.

https://www.delcotimes.com/news/ribbon- ... c72e6.html
now that it's been a few months since the ribbon cutting it's worth revisiting that this project has been a disaster. not only does the station leak but service has been a disaster since now all trains, including deadheads, must operate through the same two tracks without any of the necessary interlocking and signal work to mitigate the impact of reducing capacity. service meltdowns are now routine and even Keystone trains run late more often than not.

ChrisinAbington
Posts: 369
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:03 pm
Location: Abington, PA

Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by ChrisinAbington »

Suburban Station wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:28 am
now that it's been a few months since the ribbon cutting it's worth revisiting that this project has been a disaster. not only does the station leak but service has been a disaster since now all trains, including deadheads, must operate through the same two tracks without any of the necessary interlocking and signal work to mitigate the impact of reducing capacity. service meltdowns are now routine and even Keystone trains run late more often than not.
How was this a good idea? I could see how this could work if you had the two terminating tracks be eligible for the platform, which would require demolishing the old station and widening the ROW considerably, but going from 4 to 2 tracks right at a busy station run by Amtrak & SEPTA? Just seems like an odd proposal from the start. Are there plans to add an additional outbound track to the north?
Chris.

rcthompson04
Posts: 477
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:32 am

Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by rcthompson04 »

ChrisinAbington wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:15 pm
How was this a good idea? I could see how this could work if you had the two terminating tracks be eligible for the platform, which would require demolishing the old station and widening the ROW considerably, but going from 4 to 2 tracks right at a busy station run by Amtrak & SEPTA? Just seems like an odd proposal from the start. Are there plans to add an additional outbound track to the north?
I am not sure the station itself is the problem. The bulk of the issues seem to be west of Paoli not at Paoli itself. For some reason the line seems to have went to hell between Frazer yard and Thorndale.

This morning had a fiasco due to a switch problem east of Paoli, but that is not where I get held up usually.

Suburban Station
Posts: 3436
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:11 pm

Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by Suburban Station »

ChrisinAbington wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:15 pm
Suburban Station wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:28 am
now that it's been a few months since the ribbon cutting it's worth revisiting that this project has been a disaster. not only does the station leak but service has been a disaster since now all trains, including deadheads, must operate through the same two tracks without any of the necessary interlocking and signal work to mitigate the impact of reducing capacity. service meltdowns are now routine and even Keystone trains run late more often than not.
How was this a good idea? I could see how this could work if you had the two terminating tracks be eligible for the platform, which would require demolishing the old station and widening the ROW considerably, but going from 4 to 2 tracks right at a busy station run by Amtrak & SEPTA? Just seems like an odd proposal from the start. Are there plans to add an additional outbound track to the north?
It really wasnt a good idea, even worse
Is that they didn't put universal's in east and west of the station so problems West of the station get worse at the new two track bottleneck. The long term plan is to replace valley rd with a new bridge to Darby paoli which would free up enough space to add back a third track which would certainly help.

mcgrath618
Posts: 512
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:11 pm

Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by mcgrath618 »

I'm assuming you all have either seen minutes from or were present for SEPTA's meeting today. If you haven't, here's a summary on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/SicTransitPHL/statu ... 5880203265

Some points of note:
1) Norristown High Speed Line will take 10 more years of work
Yikes.
2) Track and electrical work is happening between 30th and Girard in anticipation of the 30th St Overbuild Project
Glad to see this project moving forward. I have high hopes for the overbuild.
3) The acquisition of Silverliner VIs (multilevel EMUs) from Bombardier
Another yikes.

rcthompson04
Posts: 477
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:32 am

Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by rcthompson04 »

mcgrath618 wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:36 pm
3) The acquisition of Silverliner VIs (multilevel EMUs) from Bombardier
Another yikes.
Curious what is the yikes on this one.

mcgrath618
Posts: 512
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:11 pm

Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by mcgrath618 »

rcthompson04 wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:39 pm
mcgrath618 wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:36 pm
3) The acquisition of Silverliner VIs (multilevel EMUs) from Bombardier
Another yikes.
Curious what is the yikes on this one.
I like the look of the Bomby EMUs, but they have their fair share of issues. SEPTA should be moving towards Tier Ia or Tier III stock, not Tier I.

The Bomby EMUs are:
•Heavy
•Married triplets
•In all likelihood, slow

And to boot, NJT’s existing MultiLevels have terrible dwell times. SEPTA should be looking into acquiring something like the MTA M9.

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