AMTRAK NEC: Springfield Shuttle/Regional/Valley Flyer/Inland Routing

[Traingeek3629]

That article is bullsh*t. MassLive is bullsh*t. Their journalism has been very poor lately, lots of typos, they need someone to proof-read whatever the 8 YOs working there wrote.

[njtmnrrbuff]

The article does have facts that aren't accurate. First, on weekends and holidays, it says that it will only be one train. When we are talking about between Springfield and Greenfield, it's going to be a total of three trains. You will have the two shuttles each way, but one pair of them will only run between Springfield and Greenfield. The northbound 400 shuttle won't have any connections from the south which isn't surprising, given the time that it departs Springfield. The next fact that can misleading is where it says that this service is as part of the Hartford Line. Yes and no-yes because many of these shuttles will be extensions of trains that serve the same stations as Ctrail Hartford Line but no because initially Amtrak equipment and crew members will cover the trains heading to Greenfield.

Hopefully, these shuttle trains will wait for any late northbound Amtrak NE Regional Connections at New Haven Union Station, especially 94 which had a dismal on time record when it started out in Newport News. In April of 2017, I was at New Haven Union Station and I watched 494 depart New Haven way before 94 arrived since 94 was running very late-probably over an hour. I think now, it starts out in Norfolk and hopefully, it's better than it used to be.

This Valley Flyer service will do great with students heading to and from college. Schools like Holyoke and Northampton will probably see many students using the train more. Now, unless if they really want to get up early to take the shuttles, I'm sure that heading down, most students will probably take the Vermonter. Probably heading back to the universities between Springfield and Greenfield, many who live in and around NYC and Philadelphia will take all of the trains.

[gregorygrice]

The trains that only run between SPG and Greenfield are really deadheads that the state decided to run as revenue. Because Greenfield is not a Mechanical location or a crew base the trains must deadhead to/from SPG. These were originally non-revenue.

[asull85]

Amtrak did not make the schedules, MassDOT did based off the current SPG-NHV schedule. MassDOT then gave Amtrak the trains they wanted to run up to Greenfield and basically said make it work. Pan Am has been less than enthused to have the extra moves up to Greenfield. Anyway, the trains start running on Monday with no passengers.

As far as the delay in announcing a schedule goes, there was a documentation issue that needed to be resolved prior to Amtrak selling tickets for the service. It didn't make too much sense to put the cart before the horse if things didn't work out in time. That only would have hurt the service, not helped it.

[gregorygrice]

Amtrak did not make the schedules, MassDOT did based off the current SPG-NHV schedule. MassDOT then gave Amtrak the trains they wanted to run up to Greenfield and basically said make it work. Pan Am has been less than enthused to have the extra moves up to Greenfield. Anyway, the trains start running on Monday with no passengers.

As far as the delay in announcing a schedule goes, there was a documentation issue that needed to be resolved prior to Amtrak selling tickets for the service. It didn't make too much sense to put the cart before the horse if things didn't work out in time. That only would have hurt the service, not helped it.

Was the PTC issue finally resolved?

[daybeers]

That article is bullsh*t. MassLive is bullsh*t. Their journalism has been very poor lately, lots of typos, they need someone to proof-read whatever the 8 YOs working there wrote.

Completely agree! They also have so many tracking services enabled on their site that there's no way I'm disabling my extensions to read the comments.

Valley Flyer schedule attached. Notice the schedule does not allow for a day trip down to NYC and back on weekends for stations north of Springfield.

What's the point of this new service then, Amtrak? Why is there a 20 minute layover in SPG and how does 499 not have a connecting Amtrak train? Amtrak doesn't provide ticketing for the CTrail trains so how are passengers expected to know that's an option, after a 27 minute layover, that is.

This late announcement of an incomplete schedule makes me think Amtrak doesn't care very much about this new service. If I were one of the Senators behind the project I'd be fuming. How are they supposed to use the marketing grant money if they can't brag about day trips to NYC and the improvements in travel times?

The 20 min layover is padding just in case the train is already late. 499 has no connecting Amtrak train 1, because its a deadhead back to Springfield and 2, CTrail 6411 leaves shortly after it arrives at Springfield. You are allowed to use any Amtrak ticket dated for that day or the next day on any CTrail train AND have the option of purchasing a ticket onboard, so making the connection with CTrail 6411 is not an issue. 6411 also connects with the last westbound Metro North train to GCT.

I understand the 20 minute padding, but that just seems like too much to me. That's 20 minutes that a potential passenger might see and say "well that's silly, I'll just drive instead" especially if their final destination is not NYC. My problem with the ticketing is the CTrail trains don't show up on Amtrak.com or on the timetables, so how are passengers supposed to know the connection with CTrail 6411 even exists?

I do agree with the idea that Massachusetts doesn't really want to fund day trips to NYC, so I understand why that's only an option on the weekdays.

I live in Hartford and was excited to go up to Northampton for the first time in 10 years and see the new line, stations, spend the day exploring the city, and spend some money there (ex. food). However, the schedule makes that impossible if I wanted to just hop on one of the Shuttles instead of planning ahead and paying Vermonter prices. Unless I go on a weekend, I'd still have to spend the night.

I really do wish the Valley Flyer all the best, but based on the schedule, it's certainly not going to capture all the markets it was intended to. Hopefully it will be successful and MassDOT will tweak the schedule accordingly and possibly add more trains in the near future.

[jp1822]

The Vermonter was popular with college students out of Amherst. Would expect these shuttle trains should be as well.

[njtmnrrbuff]

As for having more options for making daytrips to NYC from the Upper Knowledge Corridor, there are more rail options at Springfield Station. Even when this pilot service starts north of Springfield and if it ever becomes permanent, there will be people who might drive to Springfield to get the train. When coming from NYC, many people who are heading to the Upper Knowledge Corridor region are probably not making a daytrip. Obviously, the train schedule for heading from NYP to any station between Holyoke and Greenfield won't cater at all to daytrippers. There may also be people who will drive to the New Haven area for more rail service, especially taking Metro North into NYC. As mentioned in other forums, there are many people who might live in the Upper Knowledge Corridor who will drive to New Haven to take Metro North when heading into NYC or even drive to New Haven to get Amtrak.

[njtmnrrbuff]

Even though the cities further south along the Knowledge Corridor might have a lot of issues with crime(Hartford and New Haven), there are still a lot of other good reasons to make them destinations. There are many good museums and concert venues and using the train for those reasons work.

It would be good though, especially if this pilot service is successful and when more track capacity can be added, to have a shuttle train run north during the a.m. from New Haven and then head back south from Greenfield later in the day. This would be great, especially for commuter students as well as professors who might live further south and have to be at the university for daytime classes. My concern for that, though, is that it wouldn't be good for students and faculty who have to be at the university early in the morning who are coming from New Haven or Hartford. It would work great for those taking early afternoon classes.

[lordsigma12345]

As for having more options for making daytrips to NYC from the Upper Knowledge Corridor, there are more rail options at Springfield Station. Even when this pilot service starts north of Springfield and if it ever becomes permanent, there will be people who might drive to Springfield to get the train. When coming from NYC, many people who are heading to the Upper Knowledge Corridor region are probably not making a daytrip. Obviously, the train schedule for heading from NYP to any station between Holyoke and Greenfield won't cater at all to daytrippers. There may also be people who will drive to the New Haven area for more rail service, especially taking Metro North into NYC. As mentioned in other forums, there are many people who might live in the Upper Knowledge Corridor who will drive to New Haven to take Metro North when heading into NYC or even drive to New Haven to get Amtrak.

That is true, I would argue that FAR more people drive to New Haven or Stamford for rail service that live along the NHV-GFD corridor (probably five times or more) than will EVER take any of the services offered north of New Haven, however any people you can you can move to the HL and this service reduces the demand on I-91 and has congestion and environmental benefits instead of, for example, building another huge parking lot at New Haven union station which is being discussed currently. I now go out of Springfield all the time (I used to drive to NHV) because the CTrail and additional Amtrak times have really made it competitive (now you can even get a convenient transfer to Acela from Springfield - and you can connect to all the major LD trains out of NY) and now I can just easily have a friend or family member drop me off in Springfield instead of having to pay to park at a garage somewhere.

[njtmnrrbuff]

Lordsigma12345, it sounds like you live very close to Springfield and you are doing what if right for you. It's also about what time people might leave their homes in relation to getting a train at a station very close to them. The reason why New Haven has been mentioned many times is that station having more options. Of course, we have to factor in driving to that station. I know that New Haven Union Station will be getting that brand new parking garage. I have mixed feelings about that. I don't know how many people park at New Haven Union Station to catch trains, but it is probably many and the new parking garage will help. Personally, if I lived along the base of the Springfield Line, especially around Wallingford or any of the surrounding towns next to New Haven, I would use Metro North a little more when I needed to go to NYC. I notice that not every Amtrak train that honors Ctrail tickets or Ctrail's own trains connect to every Metro North train. I have a friend who lives in Wallingford and whenever I visit him up there which isn't much, I often use MNR to New Haven. In fact, I met up with him last month and he dropped me off in New Haven to head back home. This was on a Sat. However, on the opening day of Ctrail, I took one of their trains from New Haven to Wallingford.

[lordsigma12345]

I agree and yes I live about 15 minutes from Springfield. I am just saying that any trips you can get off of 91 is positive. Obviously some people are always going to want to drive further south. But NHV has a nice big parking garage already. I think a better investment would be improvements to the HL to try to improve its usefulness to more people and take advantage of investments that have been made for parking at more northern stations that are under utilized. I am guilty somewhat of this - I am moving to Holyoke and while there is a stop in Holyoke I plan to mostly continue to drive to Springfield (my house is literally right off I-91 so it is more convenient than driving into downtown Holyoke and paying the extra money and obviously Springfield has more service available, and the new union station has more amenities to offer. I’ll probably use HLK when I go north on the Vermonter though.

[njtmnrrbuff]

Yes, I got you now about the I-91 part. From Springfield to New Haven, it takes just over an hour in little traffic. Ctrail trains, counting padding in the schedule, take an hour and thirty two minutes from Springfield to New Haven while many of the Amtrak trains that accept Ctrail tickets are ten minutes faster than Ctrail trains. The Amtrak Vermonter is scheduled to take one hour and twenty five minutes counting padding. I'm sure that if it leaves Meriden on time heading southbound and Windsor Locks on time heading northbound, the southbound will arrive into NHV a few minutes early. The northbound Vermonter would arrive into Springfield a few minutes early too. The travel times on the trains from Springfield to New Haven are almost time competitive with driving and when traffic is at a standstill on I-91, even for a few miles, watch that two car Amtrak Shuttle train pass traffic at at least 90 mph between Wallingford and Mill River Interlocking in New Haven.

I feel you about moving to Holyoke and still driving to Springfield for more rail options. That's basically like saying you live in Alexandria, Va and will travel to DC Union Station to get your train to NYC and Boston. While there might be more Amtrak trains that serve Alexandria than Holyoke, there are more options available at Union Station.

[GU1001]

Was caught by surprise @ 5:30 this morning when the Damon Rd Northampton gates lowered for a northbound Amtrak. It had one P42 & 2 amfleets. Did the Greenfield service start, or was this something else?

[gregorygrice]

Was caught by surprise @ 5:30 this morning when the Damon Rd Northampton gates lowered for a northbound Amtrak. It had one P42 & 2 amfleets. Did the Greenfield service start, or was this something else?

Test trains.