Viewliner II Delivery/Production

[WhartonAndNorthern]

We all know that there are expected delays with any rail car delivery. Amtrak seems OVERLY patient when it comes to CAF and the Viewliner IIs.

Has there been any discussion of Amtrak exercising any of it's options under the contract? I don't see any need for more diners given current management's utilization and food service plans. It got all the baggage cars it needed. The bag-dorms, however, are a different story. Amtrak only ordered ten (after a renegotiation mid-contract changing the mix of cars). These don't seem to be enough to really have a critical mass to do anything.

Put them on the Florida service? 4 train sets for Meteor + 4 for the Star + 2 protects (1 ea. NY and MIA) = 10 which gives no room for bad order cars and inspection/overhaul cycles. Assign them to one set only and you have 4 cars sitting idle as spares (6 if you include the protects), which may be too much. Add them to the Boston section of the LSL as well (2 trains plus two protects) and you again eat up your spares. Is two trainsets even enough to cover 448/449?

Cardinal and NY segment LSL might make more sense given the frequencies involved. Maybe put the full bag on Boston (doesn't really make sense but...) and keep the protect equipment only in NY and Chicago (which keeps them away from Viewliner home base in Hialeah)

[Tadman]

YAAY, thanks to Mr. Dunville, I see this topic returning to discussion of CAF equipment and away from F&B.

The Caledonian issues are not the same as with the V-II Boxcars as noted, and with one spare for each assigned, the Diners are well "covered".

I still think the V-II's are the worst car boondoggle Amtrak has faced (locomotives will likely always be the SDP-40). Say your prayers for the Acela II.

Metroliners (especially when the Pioneers were so good)?

Sumitomo bilevels (especially after they built 1000-ish gallery cars, powered and unpowered)?

The Caledonian issues, from what I understand, mostly involve on-board amenities and brake release. It's been magnified because the train is marketed as a overnight shortcut to London, putting one in town in time for business. 4 hours late on the Chief is SOP, 90 minutes late on the Cally is serious bad news. They're also having problems forwarding passengers from annulled trains because evidently the staff has not been authorized to buy mass tickets on Virgin Trains to pick up their late passengers.

I'm on the Highlander in a few weeks, which is still using the MkIII sleepers. And the lounges are far better.

[Greg Moore]

We all know that there are expected delays with any rail car delivery. Amtrak seems OVERLY patient when it comes to CAF and the Viewliner IIs.

Has there been any discussion of Amtrak exercising any of it's options under the contract? I don't see any need for more diners given current management's utilization and food service plans. It got all the baggage cars it needed. The bag-dorms, however, are a different story. Amtrak only ordered ten (after a renegotiation mid-contract changing the mix of cars). These don't seem to be enough to really have a critical mass to do anything.

Put them on the Florida service? 4 train sets for Meteor + 4 for the Star + 2 protects (1 ea. NY and MIA) = 10 which gives no room for bad order cars and inspection/overhaul cycles. Assign them to one set only and you have 4 cars sitting idle as spares (6 if you include the protects), which may be too much. Add them to the Boston section of the LSL as well (2 trains plus two protects) and you again eat up your spares. Is two trainsets even enough to cover 448/449?

Cardinal and NY segment LSL might make more sense given the frequencies involved. Maybe put the full bag on Boston (doesn't really make sense but...) and keep the protect equipment only in NY and Chicago (which keeps them away from Viewliner home base in Hialeah)

While I think the contract has been a mess, I really do wish Amtrak would exercise the options. Living in a world with a plethora of sleepers would be a very different world.

With the full option of 70... wow.. but even just 20 or so.. imagine a 3rd Florida sleeper train, another NYC-Chicago train... and beyond...

Oh well.
In today's environment, not going to happen.

[electricron]

Amtrak was/is funding the Viewliner orders with CAF internally, out of their own pockets. The various states were/are funding their regional cars orders with Siemens using ARRA funding, which had a spend by date deadline. It's the deadline that caused the double level coach order to change to a single level coach order. The manufacture Nippon Sharyo did not have time to fix the engineering problem, so Sumitomo switched manufactures to complete the order and saved face.

[nomis]

To expand: NS was an engineering design flaw, along with federal funding that would expire for the conglomerate of States in the NS order.

Amtrak’s order of V-II’s didn’t have the time stipulations attached.

[jp1822]

We all know that there are expected delays with any rail car delivery. Amtrak seems OVERLY patient when it comes to CAF and the Viewliner IIs.

Has there been any discussion of Amtrak exercising any of it's options under the contract? I don't see any need for more diners given current management's utilization and food service plans. It got all the baggage cars it needed. The bag-dorms, however, are a different story. Amtrak only ordered ten (after a renegotiation mid-contract changing the mix of cars). These don't seem to be enough to really have a critical mass to do anything.

Put them on the Florida service? 4 train sets for Meteor + 4 for the Star + 2 protects (1 ea. NY and MIA) = 10 which gives no room for bad order cars and inspection/overhaul cycles. Assign them to one set only and you have 4 cars sitting idle as spares (6 if you include the protects), which may be too much. Add them to the Boston section of the LSL as well (2 trains plus two protects) and you again eat up your spares. Is two trainsets even enough to cover 448/449?

Cardinal and NY segment LSL might make more sense given the frequencies involved. Maybe put the full bag on Boston (doesn't really make sense but...) and keep the protect equipment only in NY and Chicago (which keeps them away from Viewliner home base in Hialeah)

With the new and contemporary dining coming to all eastern long distance trains east of the Mississippi River (e.g. expansion of the current "box meal" on the Capitol Limited and Lake Shore Limited to the Cardinal, Crescent, City of New Orleans, and Meteor), onboard staff needing to utilize the VIewliner Bagg/Dorm will be reduced to TWO LSA's when there are 8 (eight) rooms available in the Viewliner Bagg/Dorm. So far the western Superliner long hauls won't be affected by this. It would be better off to assign the Viewliner Bagg/Dorm to the Empire Builder or Southwest Chief that has five train sets and perhaps the Cardinal with two trainsets, with protect in Chicago and NYP. This would then allow the Superliner Trans/Dorm sleeper on the Southwest Chief or Empire Builder to be sold as a pure revenue sleeper (all roomette sleeper), and then for the Cardinal, two of the eight rooms get reserved for LSA's while the other six are sold as revenue roomettes. The regular Viewliner sleeper would still have a handicap room. The Viewliner Bagg/Dorm could still get to NYP for interchange to the Florida trains where servicing could take place in Hialeah.

With the upcoming change in crew, Amtrak has made the Viewliner Bagg/Dorm kinda useless for the eastern long distance trains since the onboard staff will be severely reduced. Amtrak also has poor utilization on the new baggage cars (lots of extras floating around the system).

[R36 Combine Coach]

It would be better off to assign the Viewliner Bag/Dorm to the Empire Builder or Southwest Chief that has five train sets and perhaps the Cardinal with two trainsets, with protect in Chicago and NYP.

On the Seattle or Portland branch of the Builder? The Portland branch still uses a Superliner I coach-baggage.

[RRspatch]

YAAY, thanks to Mr. Dunville, I see this topic returning to discussion of CAF equipment and away from F&B.

The Caledonian issues are not the same as with the V-II Boxcars as noted, and with one spare for each assigned, the Diners are well "covered".

I still think the V-II's are the worst car boondoggle Amtrak has faced (locomotives will likely always be the SDP-40). Say your prayers for the Acela II.

Metroliners (especially when the Pioneers were so good)?

Sumitomo bilevels (especially after they built 1000-ish gallery cars, powered and unpowered)?

The Caledonian issues, from what I understand, mostly involve on-board amenities and brake release. It's been magnified because the train is marketed as a overnight shortcut to London, putting one in town in time for business. 4 hours late on the Chief is SOP, 90 minutes late on the Cally is serious bad news. They're also having problems forwarding passengers from annulled trains because evidently the staff has not been authorized to buy mass tickets on Virgin Trains to pick up their late passengers.

I'm on the Highlander in a few weeks, which is still using the MkIII sleepers. And the lounges are far better.

[RRspatch]

The Caledonian issues, from what I understand, mostly involve on-board amenities and brake release. It's been magnified because the train is marketed as a overnight shortcut to London, putting one in town in time for business. 4 hours late on the Chief is SOP, 90 minutes late on the Cally is serious bad news. They're also having problems forwarding passengers from annulled trains because evidently the staff has not been authorized to buy mass tickets on Virgin Trains to pick up their late passengers.

I'm on the Highlander in a few weeks, which is still using the MkIII sleepers. And the lounges are far better.

It's more than getting the brakes to release ... now it's getting them to apply!

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/loss ... I_bWokwBP0

[electricron]

Whereas Amtrak will no longer need all 8 roomettes in the new baggage dorm cars on every train, they could sell up to 6 of them like they do roomettes on Superliner transition dome cars. Often on the Texas Eagle, one Superliner sleeper is not enough capacity, so they use capacity on the transition dome car for overflow. There is no reason why Amtrak can do the same for baggage dome car roomettes as well. I would think the Cardinal would make a great choice, often running with just one sleeper, having half of another car for overflow should be welcome and not as wasteful of available resources putting two full sleepers on it.

[WhartonAndNorthern]

With the upcoming change in crew, Amtrak has made the Viewliner Bagg/Dorm kinda useless for the eastern long distance trains since the onboard staff will be severely reduced. Amtrak also has poor utilization on the new baggage cars (lots of extras floating around the system).

That's a good point that I missed. Not only don't they need the diners to be diners, with reduced crews, you have less need for crew sleeping space. Still need rooms for the sleeping car and coach attendants and the two LSAs.

[WhartonAndNorthern]

It's more than getting the brakes to release ... now it's getting them to apply!

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/loss ... I_bWokwBP0

Sounds like a repeat of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Penn ... rain_wreck

And this is why the FRA has "excessive" brake testing demands when a train changes ends or is split up/joined. I wonder what their rules were.

[mtuandrew]

Is there any indication that the V-II shares any significant engineering or design with the Mark 5? It seems unlikely but you never know what makes its way across the Atlantic.

[David Benton]

It's more than getting the brakes to release ... now it's getting them to apply!

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/loss ... I_bWokwBP0

Sounds like a repeat of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Penn ... rain_wreck

And this is why the FRA has "excessive" brake testing demands when a train changes ends or is split up/joined. I wonder what their rules were.

It says in the report a brake test should have been done.not many mid journey split done in England these days.

[bostontrainguy]

The bag/dorms have nine rooms, right? At least that's the number of double windows on the cars. Is it current practice that every crew member gets their own roomette?

I don't know off the top of my head how many crew members are needed under these new plans, but I still think that the baggage/dorms are the best idea Amtrak has had to generate more revenue. Never understood why they cut the car number but perhaps they knew the crew cut plans when they changed the car order?

And are the call buttons working yet to put the sleeper attendants in the bag/dorms to free up revenue space as planned?