Amtrak Empire Service (New York State)

[Jeff Smith]

TimesUnion.com

1. I have to agree, there should be a cafe. Maybe some of those new-fangled CAF diners? /s

2. So, I have to ask, how does this corridor (ALB-NYP, not the Buffalo portion although I'd be interested in that as well) do financially if many trains are sold out? I always thought these were excluded from the most recent reform i.e. LD vs corridor.

3. If the corridor is controlled by NYSDOT and Amtrak (under a CSX lease, right? Or did they close on a sale?), why can't ALB-NYP be bid out the same as the Springfield NEC service? Amtrak would continue to run the LD's, and Buffalo/Niagara Falls trains. I've said it before; the corridor is ripe for Virgin.

4. Speaking of the NEC, if Springfield is part of the NEC, why not make ALB part of it? In the NYP Empire turns topic turning trains for Albany was discussed. Why not make them Regionals, with an engine change, just like at New Haven for Springfield.

Food service on Albany-NYC train may re-up in 2019
...
The Empire State Passengers Association has pushed for the reintroduction of food service to the route, which last year was one of Amtrak's busiest, after dining options on the train route were removed in 2005 as a "cost cutting measure," according to Bill Hollister, a government senior affairs manager for Amtrak.

But proponents say the train should offer a cup of coffee or snacks for passengers on the approximately two-hour and 40 minute train ride, and they argue the service could create enough revenue to pay for itself.

Because New York state subsidizes the Empire Service, the state would make the decision on whether to fund food service, which continues to be offered on trains traveling beyond the Albany-Rensselaer station.

Re-funding it would mean a defunct commissary at the Albany-Rensselaer station would be put into use again to stock food onto the Empire Service trains, Hollister said after speaking Saturday during ESPA's annual meeting at Proctors Theater in Schenectady.
...
Other ESPA priorities for this year include lobbying lawmakers to work on increasing the capacity of trains in the Empire Corridor to meet demand and reduce the number of sold-out trains — something the governor supports, according to Michael Wojnar, deputy secretary of transportation for Cuomo.
...

[Jeff Smith]

By coincidence, a Bloomberg article answered some of my questions.

Although also somewhat of a trip report, it appears the writer's main point is the money; appropriately enough the article appears on: Bloomberg.com

The Amtrak That Works, and the Amtrak That Doesn’t

Its long-distance trains are expensive anachronisms that are dragging down the more successful parts of the system. But Congress can’t bear to give them up.
...
(see chart in article)

The chart I'm referring to is the corridor service chart. Empire SOUTH lost $17.4M on 1,150,498 passenger trips, with a revenue to cost ratio of .73, the WORST of Amtrak's most popular routes by ridership for FY18.

That's bad. The ALB-NYP route I would have thought would have been break even or better. It certainly should be.

[rcthompson04]

That's bad. The ALB-NYP route I would have thought would have been break even or better. It certainly should be.

The next best comparison to the ALB-NYP route is the Keystone, which is pretty close to break even ($3 per rider subsidy is nominal).

[gokeefe]

That's bad. The ALB-NYP route I would have thought would have been break even or better. It certainly should be.

Completely agreed. I'm shocked at the poor farebox recovery. If the trains are consistently selling out and they're running 10 round-trips per day either fares are too low, trains are too short or both. It's an unfortunate policy choice which prevents additional service that could provide better utilization of public resources.

[David Benton]

For Albany trains, It also has a complete train turn at each end, which must add to costs.
Plus having to maintain a separate aging locomotive class , which would add to costs .

[gokeefe]

Oh wow. Yes, very good point there. Hadn't thought about the cost issues related to P32s.

[StLouSteve]

NY Times reports possible flooding issues for West Side Line in upper Manhattan which could lead to expensive repairs.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/21/nyre ... oding.html

[Backshophoss]

The Park's water drainage system needs repair ASAP,that "bright idea" from Robert Moses will fail if that unintended wetlands gets into
the tunnel structure.
Problem is NYC Parks Dept is waay under funded,most of the funding winds up in Central Park.

[Ridgefielder]

The Park's water drainage system needs repair ASAP,that "bright idea" from Robert Moses will fail if that unintended wetlands gets into
the tunnel structure.
Problem is NYC Parks Dept is waay under funded,most of the funding winds up in Central Park.

NYC Parks Department actually doesn't spend much at all on Central Park. The maintenance and improvement budget is covered by the non-profit Central Park Conservancy. Been that way since the early 1980's-- the Conservancy basically took over when the City was on the verge of bankruptcy and the park was in almost terminal decline.

There are similar organisations citywide that support the major parks-- Prospect, Riverside, Bryant, Battery. Parks Department funding tends to focus on smaller ones and facilities in the outer boroughs-- Asser Levy park and pool in Manhattan, Orchard Beach in The Bronx, Rockaway Beach in Queens, that sort of thing.

I can't read the Times article since it's behind a paywall. But I will say that if they're talking about flooding last week, well: the rain on Wednesday was nothing short of Biblical. Something like 3" of rain fell in 40mins. Even the best drainage system could get overwhelmed.

[R36 Combine Coach]

NYC Parks Department actually doesn't spend much at all on Central Park. The maintenance and improvement budget is covered by the non-profit Central Park Conservancy. Been that way since the early 1980's-- the Conservancy basically took over when the City was on the verge of bankruptcy and the park was in almost terminal decline. There are similar organisations citywide that support the major parks-- Prospect, Riverside, Bryant, Battery.

This makes an more appealing case for public-private partnerships.

[Greg Moore]

NY has discussed (it's good at discussing) adding more trains.
A goal stated at one point was to increase to hourly service, not including the LSL (and perhaps not including the other named trains, I can't recall) so there would be a minimum of 12 trains a day in each direction.

For the longest time, all Empire Service trains with 5 cars (4 coach, 1 cafe/business) but over time more have started to run with 6.
The platforms can now support I believe 10 cars.

One thing that has been annoying is that the scheduled times have INCREASED over the years. This is frustrating. There's a variety of reasons, but a lot come down to the fact that NY can't get Metro-North and Amtrak on the same page.

Honestly, this is an area where NY should be spending the funds to get trip towns down to sub 2 hours. (I've been on trains that completed the route in just under 2:10, with 10 minute holds at POU and all "discharge only north of there).

There's a fair number of folks that already commute to NYC either daily (not common, but a few do) or weekly (far more common) from ALB or HUD.

As for the cafe cars, yes as stated, if the train begins or ends past Albany, it has a cafe car.
It would be great to bring back cafe cars for trains terminating in Albany. I know I'd prefer that for the times I've had to leave NYP around dinner time and didn't have time to get a decent meal before boarding.

But yeah.. this is one route I definitely don't think lives up to its potential.

[R36 Combine Coach]

There's a fair number of folks that already commute to NYC either daily (not common, but a few do) or weekly (far more common) from ALB or HUD.

How many 10-trip and monthly passholders are there for Rhinecliff and Hudson? Would it be cheaper for Columbia and Upper Dutchess County residents to drive to MNCR at Poughkeepsie or Wassaic?

[Railjunkie]

Early morning and evening trains I would say are around 20 percent monthly and 10 trips, its been a while since I collected revenue. There are a few that do indeed drive to Poughkeepsie save some money but its a longer trip cant speak to any who travel to Wassaic.

[NaugyRR]

Wassaic's my "I don't feel like committing to a certain train home/Grand Central has way better food" station (I'm about 25-minutes from Rhinecliff or Wassaic), and my past experience is that Wassaic's been slightly busier than Rhinecliff during the off-peak. I've never paid attention to how many folks are pass users, but I have seen passes used on the branch. Southeast, on the other hand, is where passenger #'s really outshine Empire Trains.
Switching to Wassaic from Amtrak though could be a pain for people depending on where they live. This area you can travel north and south twenty ways from Sunday, but going east and west takes time on some slow curvy roads.

Poughkeepsie can be a bit of ride for people on the county line too. More so if people were to switch from Hudson, but at least Route 9 is a fairly quick and easy drive. Coincidentally, Route 9 parallel's the tracks, and the trains typically travel much faster and smoother than traffic does, haha.

Personally I think with some longer trains and refreshed equipment, including new motive power if/when that ever happens, along with some scheduling tweaks and basic cafe service, a little shine and sparkle could be brought back to the service.

[njtmnrrbuff]

Determining whether to drive to Wassaic or Poughkeepsie would probably depend on where in Columbia and Duchess Counties you live. If you live very close to the Hudson River or a few miles, then you would drive to Poughkeepsie. However, the closer you live to the NY/MA border, the closer you are to Wassaic. Although the service to Wassaic isn’t as frequent as Poughkeepsie plus you have to change, that station does very well with ridership. Wassaic is off the beaten path and there aren’t many straight highways nearby so you must build in extra time for traffic when catching a train at Wassaic. Wassaic is great if you are heading to or from the Berkshires and NW Connecticut. I have family friends who live in Great Barrington. When they head to NYC, they use Wassaic for MNR. If they take Amtrak, they will use Hudson.