Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

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NH2060
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Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by NH2060 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:18 am

Obviously we've been down this rabbit hole enough times before so... let's not hold our breath :wink:
While the idea has been discussed before, Boughton said this seems to be the first time where discussions are happening across state lines with Putnam County and MTA.

“I don’t think anyone has taken it this far,” he said.

Boughton said he has received positive feedback from the Metropolitan Transit Authority, Putnam County and Housatonic Railroad. He is scheduling a meeting to discuss it with the Connecticut Department of Transportation.

https://www.newstimes.com/local/article ... 07-tbla-19" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Backshophoss
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by Backshophoss » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:45 am

How about EVICTING HRRC from Danbury,otherwise forget it!
HRRC is poison to MN and MTA.
The Land of Enchantment is not Flyover country!

DutchRailnut
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by DutchRailnut » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:37 am

Joe with his communist idea's , they own the joint , so no eviction.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Ridgefielder
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by Ridgefielder » Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:55 am

They'd have to build a couple hundred feet of new track on the Brewster end to connect the lines, presumably right around here https://goo.gl/maps/dCus8LaLj5G2 since I don't think you'd run all the way up to Towners on the Maybrook to the existing connection. Not sure if there's enough space for a loop that would let a Maybrook westbound head south on the Harlem.

Also, using the current Danbury MN station would require a reverse move because of the rather weird track layout at Danbury https://goo.gl/maps/TsVcmAeW8Cx.

DutchRailnut
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by DutchRailnut » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:50 pm

the connecting track is long gone, and no way Brewster will let them restore it and take their sports fields.
only viable place to connect would be of Rt 202 near borden bridge (croton river) and follow the river and put in new interlocking half mile south of Brewster station.
chances of New york paying for that zero.
chances of NY DEP letting build on protected area , zero

the 70 million US peso's Baughton claims would not even cover 1/3, half mile of viaduct , new interlocking , rebuilding 9 miles of track plus several bridges. a signal system including PTC and 5 or 6 crossings ???
Keep on dreaming Mr.Mayor.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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GirlOnTheTrain
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by GirlOnTheTrain » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:56 pm

Maybe he thinks if he can pull this off he'll actually win the primary to run for governor next time around.
"I am no longer just a girl on the train, going back and forth without point or purpose."

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EuroStar
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by EuroStar » Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:00 pm

DutchRailnut wrote:the connecting track is long gone, and no way Brewster will let them restore it and take their sports fields.
only viable place to connect would be of Rt 202 near borden bridge (croton river) and follow the river and put in new interlocking half mile south of Brewster station.
chances of New york paying for that zero.
chances of NY DEP letting build on protected area , zero
The old connecting track is definitely not coming back, but I would guess that a tight loop just north of Rt 312 would be cheaper and have much better chances for approval than following the river and Rt 202 with a viaduct, but yeah, in all cases due to the issue of one state needing to issue the permits while another state would benefit from the proposed service, this is not going to happen. With political influence ending at the state border this and many other proposals are just dead on arrival.

Backshophoss
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by Backshophoss » Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:24 pm

This is a connection That is DOA as long as HRRC controls the Maybrook line remains,forget about the old interchange.that ROW is gone.
Track in the CP Fairgrounds area is lost to the swamp there,the rest to the state line is overgrown/useless.
At best MN could run a shuttle service with a light rail DMU in isolation to the ConnDOT Park n' Ride just over the state line,from a spur built
along Prospect hill Road's shoulder to the station at Southeast(Brewster North)
connecting to the Maybrook at Griffin Rd.
The Land of Enchantment is not Flyover country!

DutchRailnut
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by DutchRailnut » Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:28 pm

EuroStar wrote:
DutchRailnut wrote:the connecting track is long gone, and no way Brewster will let them restore it and take their sports fields.
only viable place to connect would be of Rt 202 near borden bridge (croton river) and follow the river and put in new interlocking half mile south of Brewster station.
chances of New york paying for that zero.
chances of NY DEP letting build on protected area , zero
The old connecting track is definitely not coming back, but I would guess that a tight loop just north of Rt 312 would be cheaper and have much better chances for approval than following the river and Rt 202 with a viaduct, but yeah, in all cases due to the issue of one state needing to issue the permits while another state would benefit from the proposed service, this is not going to happen. With political influence ending at the state border this and many other proposals are just dead on arrival.
between Rt 312 and dykeman interchange is a sizable hill that won't be moved . actually it stretches from tonetta lake to Dykemans
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Train322
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by Train322 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:23 pm

Since the cost, due to the sharp curve and all the environmental issues would be too high. A much cheaper idea is to run a connecting bus to all Harlem trains to and from GCT. That way, we can see if the demand warrants the expenditure - if and when money is available.

I think we are still waiting for President Trumps's promise to invest in infrastructure.

njt/mnrrbuff
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by njt/mnrrbuff » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:25 pm

I don't think so people. Yes, there are not only too many curves, but the track isn't in good shape. Plus the right of way probably doesn't serve many commercial areas. There is a bus that runs from Danbury to Brewster but I think it only runs on weekdays and it doesn't run very much. Maybe for starters, the bus can run seven days a week and every fifteen minutes during the rush hour and every 30 minutes during off peak hours and on weekends, still connecting to the trains at Brewster. There are many people who live in and around Danbury who use the Harlem Line to travel to NYC because it is faster and there is more direct service. The problem with the Danbury Branch is not only must you switch trains a lot, but it is a bit slower when traveling to the city. If you are heading to cities like S. Norwalk and Stamford, then it isn't so bad.

DutchRailnut
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by DutchRailnut » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:33 pm

train time from Danbury to New York is still less than driving Danbury to Brewster plus train to New york.
people are just kidding themselves.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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hrfcarl
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by hrfcarl » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:02 am

Ridgefielder wrote:They'd have to build a couple hundred feet of new track on the Brewster end to connect the lines, presumably right around here https://goo.gl/maps/dCus8LaLj5G2


Using the google map linked above, would it be easier to make the connection from the HRRC line to Southeast instead? While not as big as Brewster, Southeast is start of electrified service, the connection would require less curving and the Wassaic diesel shuttles could extend to Danbury. Is there any place in between that would be worth while to add a station?
Ridgefielder wrote:Also, using the current Danbury MN station would require a reverse move because of the rather weird track layout at Danbury https://goo.gl/maps/TsVcmAeW8Cx.
Would the Danbury Railway Museum allow a platform to be built on their property allowing riders a relative short walk to the regular MN station. Otherwise, there would need to be a direct connection across White St thru the museum parking lot to connect to the Danbury branch.

Of course, the question becomes: is it worth the cost of buying/rights to HRRC trackage to have some service flexibility, especially if no additional stations are included?

dha10001
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by dha10001 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:45 pm

Screw Boughton. I've lived in Danbury since 2002 (coincidentally when he took office) and he has completely neglected the Danbury branch all that time. Never pressed for improved service, never publicly supported extension northwards, and has overseen a major increase in sprawling, auto-dependent greenfield development on the edges of the city. He's a Republican Boomer and governs like one. Meanwhile this ROW has been abandoned and development sites around it in West Danbury have been built up with transit-incompatible uses. In the evening traffic is terrible around exit 2 because the whole area is a bottleneck, and the huge number of new apartments and townhomes being built in he hills to the South are adding hugely to traffic. And everyone is in a car.

This proposal seems to call for a spur off Maybrook that leads into Southeast station, therefore requiring a connection or a reverse move. Trains from Southeast to NYC already take 80+ minutes. So the time savings and convenience rapidly dissipate. Way down the line, if rail money was flowing, sure, build it. In the short term, maybe build out the mixed-use path from Brewster to Danbury. Run a frequent bus. HART transit is not geared as mass transit, but rather transit for the marginal. That should change. Coincidentally, Danbury just released a downtown TOD plan that would call for a bus hub adjacent to the Danbury station. How a station for the Maybrook service would tie in to these plans? Undefined.

A larger question is how Danbury will grow over the next 50 years. It has an urban core, but has sprawled and grown in a suburban way for a long time. We'll see what happens to the jobs in the big suburban office parks in the area. And traffic is a growing problem, and there are plans for more highway expansions... and more sprawl... and more traffic. But my position in sort is: invest in the Danbury Branch and New Haven Line!

TCurtin
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by TCurtin » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:16 pm

THis whole thing is utterly ridiculous.

First: Let's say you live in Danbury and drive to Brewster (or more likely, Southeast), park there, and get on a Harlem train. I would bet that if you took a stopwatch, timed the trip starting at your home, and ending in GCT, the elapsed time is approximately equal to taking a train from Danbury!

Second: CDOT has invested a lot on the Danbury line, to wit TCS signalling, more frequent service both on and off peak

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