LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

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MattAmity90
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Post by MattAmity90 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:07 pm

rr503 wrote:
Jeff Smith wrote:There will still be only two platforms at Mineola.
For third track, yes. I’m asking whether or not that holds true in assessments of making OB into a shuttle — the new interlocking config at Mineola seems to beg that course of action.
I don't see that happening, twenty years ago when the DC/DM30's and C3 cars arrived the LIRR made the promise that with the new fleet there would be no changing at Jamaica to get to Penn Station. They promised a full-on trip from Montauk, Speonk, Patchogue, Port Jefferson, and Oyster Bay to Penn Station. The third track (which will be to the South of the current EB track) will become a local track, while the current EB track will be an express track. All the stations between Hicksville and Floral Park will still be two platforms with the middle track being express.

On a side note, viaduct supports and buttresses are being erected at Floral Park at the fork where the Main Line continues straight and the Hempstead Branch diverts to the right.
This station is Babylon, this is the train to Penn Station. Stopping at: Lindenhurst, Copiague, Amityville, Massapequa Park, Massapequa, Seaford, Wantagh, Bellmore, Merrick, Freeport, Baldwin, Rockville Centre, Lynbrook, Valley Stream, Jamaica, Kew Gardens, Forest Hills, Woodside, Penn Station.

MACTRAXX
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Post by MACTRAXX » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:52 pm

MA90: Twenty years ago the LIRR made promises with the DM30s and C3 cars that they realized
that they could barely keep concerning through service to Penn Station from the non-electrified
branches. What turned out is that locomotives on each end (2) were needed on through trains
because of possible third-rail gapping problems entering and leaving Penn Station. The Jamaica
gaps are larger - the DM30s usually are still in diesel mode through Jamaica and change modes
around Kew Gardens westbound and after leaving the East River tunnel eastbound.

There are currently 10 DM30s required to provide four "eight sets": two each for Port Jefferson
and Speonk/Montauk trains and the one Oyster Bay through train (4-5 cars) for peak hours.
That only leaves 10 units for other services depending on the time of year (the Friday afternoon
Cannonball being the best example) remembering each through train requires two DM30s.
Unless there are new dual mode units on order (I have heard mention that the proposed three
agency NYS dual mode order is now indefinitely on hold) or more cars (multilevels?) are ordered
more through service over and above what runs currently is not possible at least now...

Going back on track: Has anyone posted a track diagram showing what the proposed configuration
of Nassau Interlocking will look like upon completion of the Third Track Project?
This is something I have yet to see and make any comment on.

The center track will no doubt be the express track - and like today OB trains operating east over
the interlocking running local W/Mineola stop will block the other two tracks leaving the Main Line.

In case anyone does not know ESA when it finally opens will be served by MU trains only - the 63rd
Street Tunnel under the East River as built in the 1970s does not have clearance for the C3 fleet.
Any added through dual mode trains will serve Penn Station as is current.

These two major projects will likely transform the LIRR considerably from what we all experience
today - with more service on three Main Line tracks through Nassau County and major schedule
changes systemwide to be introduced with the opening of ESA at the top of our list...MACTRAXX
Last edited by MACTRAXX on Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
EXPRESS TRAIN TO NEW YORK PENN STATION-NO JAMAICA ON THIS TRAIN-PLEASE STAND CLEAR OF THE CLOSING TRAIN DOORS

rr503
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Post by rr503 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:02 pm

I should have provided the track diagram in advance; my apologies. The EIS shows the following:

http://www.amodernli.com/wp-content/upl ... df#page=15" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...meaning that e/b OB trains will have to reverse run on the northern track from the new Nassau 1, through Mineola to the OB switches. Obviously, this arrangement was not designed with frequent OB service in mind, hence my question about shuttle designs.

jamestrains1
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Post by jamestrains1 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:25 pm

From information derived from documents released to the Village of Garden City, it appears as though the future track numbering will be as follows from north-most track to south-most track (current track number is italicized, and proposed track number is bold):

Existing Track ML1
Proposed Track ML3

Existing Track ML2
Proposed Track ML1

Existing Track N/A
Proposed Track ML2
Nassau Boulevard - Bridge Package Work Zone Traffic Control 60% Submission
https://www.gardencityny.net/vertical/s ... 0_Plan.pdf
see pdf pg. 1
ML3-Zoom.PNG
ML3.PNG

Additional documents released to the Village of Garden City can be found here:
https://www.gardencityny.net/index.asp? ... FC8CAD938}

As this URL above does not seem to be able to be posted as a hyperlink, you can arrive at these documents by following these instructions:
From the Village of Garden City web site:
https://www.gardencityny.net/
Click on the hyperlink on the left panel titled:
"LIRR 3rd Track Information"
And then click on the hyperlink titled:
"Covert Avenue Detour Study, New Hyde Park Crossing and Nassau Boulevard Bridge"
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jamestrains1
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Post by jamestrains1 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:16 pm

The design-build contractors had proposed an optimized alignment in their bid, which would simplify construction and reduce the amount of track that would need to be cut and thrown during construction. The optimized alignment would place the new track south of the existing two tracks for the majority of the project's length. This alignment was accepted and is shown in the images below. The images are of poor quality as they are from a scanned document found on the project website.
Technical Memorandum
Long Island Rail Road Expansion Project from Floral Park to Hicksville

http://lirrexpansion.com/wp-content/upl ... gnment.pdf
see pdf pg.5
Existing Track Alignment
Existing-LIRR.PNG

Comparison of Approved Track Alignment and Optimized Track Alignment (cut and throw sections highlighted in yellow)
see pdf pg.6
Compare.PNG
Cut and Throw Comparison between Approved Track Alignment and Optimized Track Alignment
see pdf pg.17
CUT-THROW.PNG

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jamestrains1
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Post by jamestrains1 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:26 pm

The next few posts will be contain the construction stages that were proposed in the design-builder's bid. This will require a few posts to show, as attachments are limited to 3 per post.
LIRR CONTRACT #6240
Design-Build Services for LIRR Expansion Project from Floral Park to Hicksville
VOLUME 2 - PACKAGE 3: SCHEDULE AND CONSTRUCTION IMPACT MITIGATION

http://www.amodernli.com/wp-content/upl ... dacted.pdf
pdf pg.32-39

Q2 2020 - Q3 2020
19-24.PNG
Q4 2020 - Q1 2021
25-30.PNG
Q2 2021 - Q3 2021
31-36.PNG
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jamestrains1
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Post by jamestrains1 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:28 pm

The next few posts will be contain the construction stages that were proposed in the design-builder's bid. This will require a few posts to show, as attachments are limited to 3 per post.
LIRR CONTRACT #6240
Design-Build Services for LIRR Expansion Project from Floral Park to Hicksville
VOLUME 2 - PACKAGE 3: SCHEDULE AND CONSTRUCTION IMPACT MITIGATION

http://www.amodernli.com/wp-content/upl ... dacted.pdf
pdf pg.32-39

Q4 2021 - Q1 2022
37-42.PNG
Q2 2022 - Q3 2022
43-48.PNG
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jamestrains1
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Post by jamestrains1 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:41 pm

The first two images below are from design-builder's bid and show the Existing Alignment and the Final Alignment.

The third image is an Early Alignment from the earlier Main Line Corridor Improvements Project circa 2006, please excuse the poor quality of this image as it scan of a printed image. This was taken from a pdf file that was hosted on the Village of New Hyde Park's web site, it has since been removed but can still be accessed via the internet archive.
LIRR CONTRACT #6240
Design-Build Services for LIRR Expansion Project from Floral Park to Hicksville
VOLUME 2 - PACKAGE 3: SCHEDULE AND CONSTRUCTION IMPACT MITIGATION

http://www.amodernli.com/wp-content/upl ... dacted.pdf
pdf pg.32-39

Existing Alignment
AS_IS_LIRR.PNG
Final Alignment
FINAL-LIRR.PNG
Main Line Corridor Improvements Project Project Briefing
December 4, 2006 New Hyde Park

https://web.archive.org/web/20160806114 ... cument.pdf
see pdf pg. 9

Early Alignment
Capture111.PNG
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jamestrains1
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Post by jamestrains1 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:03 pm

If you compare the first image with the last, you can see how the alignments differ between the current Expansion Project project and the early 2000's Mainline Corridor Improvement Project.
These images are similar in size and style and should make the comparisons between the two projects easier to see.
Particularly notable differences differences include the location of switches and the platforms at Mineola.
Main Line Corridor Improvements Project Project Briefing
December 4, 2006 New Hyde Park

https://web.archive.org/web/20160806114 ... cument.pdf
see pdf pg. 9
Early Alignment
Capture111.PNG
Long Island Rail Road Expansion Project from Floral Park to Hicksville
Final Environmental Impact Statement
Chapter 1 – Appendix 1-A: Final Preliminary Engineering Technical Memorandum

http://www.amodernli.com/wp-content/upl ... alMemo.pdf

Existing Alignment
FEIS-EXISTING.PNG
Final Alignment
FEIS-FINAL.PNG
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jamestrains1
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Post by jamestrains1 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:05 pm

rr503 wrote:
Jeff Smith wrote:There will still be only two platforms at Mineola.
For third track, yes. I’m asking whether or not that holds true in assessments of making OB into a shuttle — the new interlocking config at Mineola seems to beg that course of action.
Below you can see the proposed track geometry for the connections to the Oyster Bay Branch.
Long Island Rail Road Expansion Project from Floral Park to Hicksville
Final Environmental Impact Statement
Chapter 1 – Appendix 1-A: Final Preliminary Engineering Technical Memorandum

http://www.amodernli.com/wp-content/upl ... alMemo.pdf
see pdf pg. 173
Oyster.PNG
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Jeff Smith
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Post by Jeff Smith » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:32 am

Thank you James... awesome info!
Next stop, Willoughby
~Jeff Smith (fka "Sarge") :: RAILROAD.NET Site Administrator/Co-Owner

steamy
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Post by steamy » Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:17 pm

Interesting updates & photos on new weekly newsletter issued by the third track project team. Sign up here:
http://www.amodernli.com/#mailing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Patch Hog
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Post by Patch Hog » Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:17 pm

I realize it's too far along to consider this now but can't help wonder if any thought was given to relocating the Carle Place station 1/4 mile to the west.
If the platform bridged Meadowbrook Parkway (overpass has to be replaced anyway), it would give direct pedestrian access from the station to Glen Cove Rd and Roosevelt Field while maintaining access to the neighborhood. The storm basin could have added some parking too.

Head-end View
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Post by Head-end View » Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:42 pm

Who says the Meadowbrook Parkway overpass has to be replaced? Maybe they'll just add on to it for the third track. :wink:

LB
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Re: LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Post by LB » Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:18 pm

Can they fit 3 tracks under the Grand Ave overpass in Westbury / New Cassel?

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