MLV EMU Procurement

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pateljones
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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by pateljones » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:14 am

This does not portend a good future. I am ambivalent about their quality.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/swiss-bo ... 18667.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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ZURICH, Feb 11 (Reuters) - Swiss Federal Railways (SBB) said on Monday that new Bombardier trains have yet to live up to expectations and that both companies were working to correct issues, including improving software and fixing problematic doors.
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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by lensovet » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:48 am

I don't think there's anything surprising here. SBB obviously has a higher standard than NJT. NJT had issues with the original MLV deliveries as well. It's worth noting also that they have the base model down fairly well by now, whereas the TWINDEXX seems to be a new design. The main issue there currently appears to be with various accessibility issues like wheelchair ramps. You can see a video here: https://www.srf.ch/news/schweiz/neue-do ... ngsgericht" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by EuroStar » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:00 pm

NJT is generally pretty happy with Bombardier. While other suppliers might have a better record on ontime deliveries and fewer issues, the BBD supplied engined and coaches have had their issues worked out to the point where it all seems to be fine.

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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by njt/mnrrbuff » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:12 pm

I agree about NJT being happy with Bombardier. I'm sure that those MLV MUs will be tested thoroughly before entering revenue service and once they are out there, many people will like them.

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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by Backshophoss » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:19 pm

BBD is having QC problems across the entire globe,NYCTA and the Swiss have halted deliveries untill the issues are tended to,
Toronto has cut the amount of "Light Rail" vehicles it will buy,after a court case attempt to cancel the contract outright.
This unicorn MLV-II based EMU design just might break BBD's Back and send the company into bankruptcy.
NJT would have been better off with a next Gen Arrow design
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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by Nasadowsk » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:37 pm

Backshophoss wrote: This unicorn MLV-II based EMU design just might break BBD's Back and send the company into bankruptcy.
The Canadians will bail them out, yet again.

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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by DutchRailnut » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:50 pm

probably, the QC problems have been severely evident since the mid 1990's. some of bombardier cars MN got, screws had no lock washers , backing out by themselves and dropping trap doors on passengers and crew.
Bombardier ignored the problem, continuing to slap together cars with barely employables, just to please politicians.
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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by bdawe » Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:48 pm

The new skytrains in Vancouver are nice ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by DutchRailnut » Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:59 pm

from a passenger standpoint any choo choo is nice, but for Maintenance and operations, certain manufacturers stand out for poor workmanship.
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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by lensovet » Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:15 am

Backshophoss wrote:NJT would have been better off with a next Gen Arrow design
and who exactly was providing such a design? just as much a unicorn as the MLV EMU.
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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:51 am

lensovet wrote:
Backshophoss wrote:NJT would have been better off with a next Gen Arrow design
and who exactly was providing such a design? just as much a unicorn as the MLV EMU.
Single level Rotem MU. Or single level BBD M-7 with overhead electricals and trap doors.
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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by DutchRailnut » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:38 am

your first choice already left this country . and your second choice is pipedream at best .
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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by EuroStar » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:36 am

It is worth noting that the only other bid was from the Chinese and as of right now they lack any record for equipment built for US standards, use, abuse, lack of maintenance, etc., so it is not as if NJT had that much of a choice. Now of course the design choice of power cars is unique and I am definitely in the sceptics camp. While these things can probably be built, in my opinion, BBD cannot stuff everything they need to in there with the number of seats they have promised to NJT. As for maintenance, it is my understanding that the current Bombardier MLVs are OK, definitely not best in class, but generally OK. The oldest ones are only a little over 10 years old though. We still need to see how they will be when they are approaching their 25th birthday which will probably be about half their life.

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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by Nasadowsk » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:23 pm

EuroStar wrote:It is worth noting that the only other bid was from the Chinese and as of right now they lack any record for equipment built for US standards, use, abuse, lack of maintenance, etc., so it is not as if NJT had that much of a choice.
My guess is CCRC is so fixated on getting orders, they didn't know what Stadler, Siemens, etc all knew - the 'bidding' was just a formality and NJT knew from day one who was going to build these things. Remember, most of the others went down that rabbit hole with the Arrow IV (I never got confirmation on it, but I've heard CAF won that, and BBD was nowhere near the lowest bid for NJT to fudge things in their favor, therefore NJT simply didn't award)
Now of course the design choice of power cars is unique and I am definitely in the sceptics camp.
Other than a requirement to interoperate with a shitty multilevel design built by a company with a spotty at best record, it's not unique. Motor-trailers, even multi-level ones, are common as dirt overseas. Hell, the French have multisystem ones, and the Swiss and Germans have 'em on the 16 2/3rds Hz system, bigger transformer and all.
While these things can probably be built, in my opinion, BBD cannot stuff everything they need to in there with the number of seats they have promised to NJT.
Transformer in the corridor at the end of the car under the pan, air equipment at the other end in the roof/ceiling, inverters at the opposite end under the air equipment.... It can and has been done. Can it be done with the design compromises NJT and the FRA will accept, and with a weight that's reasonable, and get performance that makes it worthwhile? That's the big question mark. But such packaging (and even more aggressive) exists overseas and has for years now. It's really not much different from the Stadler cars being built for California.
As for maintenance, it is my understanding that the current Bombardier MLVs are OK, definitely not best in class, but generally OK.
I'd hate to want to know what 'poor' is like. The last few ones I've been are were rattle and squeak fests, with Bombardier's famous build 'quality', and ride. I don't know why BBD can't make a decent riding railcar, but they can't.

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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by mtuandrew » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:28 pm

It seems like BBD used to build a good railcar - I’ve heard zero complaints about S-IIs, and as terrible as the mechanical systems were on the Acela, I don’t think the body build quality is supposed to be bad. Does anyone know how the MR90 up in Quebec has performed?

It’s not the self-propelled that’s the issue, it’s the pulling two cars. Even reducing the load to one trailer would make a big difference in weight and space required.

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