BSL / Navy Yard Extension

Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

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AlexC
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BSL / Navy Yard Extension

Post by AlexC » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:54 pm

Oof: http://planphilly.com/articles/2018/04/ ... l-estimate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Extending the Broad Street Subway to the Navy Yard would cost upwards of $380 million more than originally anticipated when the proposal to extend the city’s north-south transit line down to the growing South Philadelphia business hub was first introduced in 2008.

In a few weeks, SEPTA expects to release details and updated cost estimates in a long-delayed study on the feasibility of the proposed extension. The feasibility study was originally scheduled for release last summer.

The subway extension’s skyrocketing costs and delayed report trace back to the same cause: A mid-study realization that the preferred construction method of digging a deep trench, building the subway tunnel, and then burying it — known as “cut and cover” — was no longer feasible. “Instead, [construction] would have to be tunnels, likely using a boring machine,” said Liz Smith, SEPTA’s director of strategic planning.
What would we be up to now? $700 million?
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MACTRAXX
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Re: BSL / Navy Yard Extension

Post by MACTRAXX » Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:25 pm

AC (and Everyone:)

The recent topic about if Philadelphia is selected for the Amazon 2 Headquarters has gotten some
mention about the subject of a BSL extension south from PAT&Tison Station to the Navy Yard and
perhaps further through a new tunnel under the Delaware River to National Park, NJ.

With the cost of the project increasing unless Amazon is willing to invest directly into this for the
convenience and access of their work force it likely will not get built. Local money is tight and the
current federal government does not support local mass transit extensions such as this one.

The price tag - and who will have to pay for this project - will likely end any chances to extend
the Broad Street Line southward from the Stadium Complex. What will probably happen is that
connecting bus service is expanded from PAT&Tison Station and maybe Center City and further.

MACTRAXX
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zebrasepta
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Re: BSL / Navy Yard Extension

Post by zebrasepta » Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:05 pm

New news on the potential Navy Yard Extension

http://www.philly.com/transportation/br ... 90201.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
SEPTA pitched three proposals on Thursday to extend the Broad Street Line to the Navy Yard, but the long-percolating project faces a hefty price tag and a hard road to win funding.

The price tag for the cheapest of the options is $869 million, and the other two are $1.5 billion and $1.6 billion. Under current ridership projections, the project wouldn’t qualify for needed federal funding. Also, it is possible better transit around the development could be achieved with buses at much less cost.



The long-term goal, though, is a subway extension. “We want to make the ride to the Navy Yard as easy as possible,” Gupta said. “And also send a message that the Navy Yard is an integrated part of the city.”

mcgrath618
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Re: BSL / Navy Yard Extension

Post by mcgrath618 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:11 pm

Hopefully if this ends up happening, it'll spur more subway development.
Right?
Please?

JeffK
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Re: BSL / Navy Yard Extension

Post by JeffK » Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:44 am

mcgrath618 wrote:Hopefully if this ends up happening, it'll spur more subway development.
Right?
Please?
The cynic in me thinks it's unlikely. In an older city with little opportunity for cut-and-cover construction, even short underground extensions (like this one) are hideously expensive. But you never know. There's always the hope that a small success would generate more momentum. E.g. even though its completion is far from assured, the stars seemed to have aligned for the NHSL spur.
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Silverliner II
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Re: BSL / Navy Yard Extension

Post by Silverliner II » Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:50 pm

Deep boring would really be the only way to go. As it is, from the end of Pattison station, the line would have to drop further down to get underneath the CSX leads into Greenwich Yard. It also would have to avoid an insanely high water table. The CSX leads run underneath Broad Street in what amounts to a short tunnel. At every high tide of the Delaware River, the southernmost two tracks, one of which is the only track that double stacks and auto racks can use to access the yard, start to take on water seeping up from the ground, usually partway up the sides of the rails, but not over them, through the length of the tunnel to about 70 feet west and 20 feet east of each portal. When a severe rain storm hits... the water levels go almost to the top of the rail. Factor in runoff from upstate... and then add in high tide... and we get water up to a foot and a half over the rail... more than enough to destroy locomotive traction motors and truck bearings on locos and cars alike, bringing operations to a dead stop at times until the water recedes. This is not a new issue, but has grown worse since all the Navy Yard development in some areas where there were no buildings before. Those tracks were undercut to accommodate stacks and racks back in the early 1990's.

So yes, SEPTA would have to deep bore, and do a sharp dive down from Pattison station.

Some would say "Why not use Pattison's lower level to start tunneling from?" Here comes a partial list of issues, and would explain the ballooning costs of an extension:
1. The two tracks serving the lower level both funnel off a single lead off the northbound main track, just south of the crossovers, thus creating a bottleneck where only one train at a time can get in and out of the station. The tunnel would have to be deconstructed in the area and rebuilt to allow for a southbound track connection to the southbound lower level track.
2. ADA accessibility can not be done with the lower level platform for these reasons and possibly more: the platform is too narrow... the space between stairways and the platform edge striping is far below minimum width requirements. The stairways themselves are too narrow. There is no elevator access to the lower level, and sinking a shaft down still brings up the violation in width from the shaft walls to the platform edges.

And yet, deep boring would be needed for yet another reason... should the future see a revival of the old idea to extend the line to National Park, NJ and a proposed I-295 park & ride lot (Gosh, I am 47 now... I will be long dead and buried before that ever happens), the tunnel would need to be at least 60 feet under by the time it got to the Delaware River, just to be about 15 feet below the riverbed. The head start under the Navy Yard would be a help in that matter.

I'd like to see any extension happen. But in this climate... it's going to have to be a public-private partnership for funding.... or it's not likely to happen.
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mcgrath618
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Re: BSL / Navy Yard Extension

Post by mcgrath618 » Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:13 pm

The article mentions though that they plan on using the lower level of Pattison.

Silverliner II
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Re: BSL / Navy Yard Extension

Post by Silverliner II » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:19 pm

Then they will have to do some major demolition work in the tunnel to make the lower level tracks accessible from both main tracks AND widen the lower level tunnel in order to widen the platform, and stairs to the lower platform, and other work to meet ADA regulations. That would blow up the price tag a tad too.
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