Lower Montauk Division Discussion

Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

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jayrmli
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Re: Lower Montauk Division Discussion

Post by jayrmli » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:47 pm

This study, sponsored by Council Member Elizabeth Crowley, will explore options for restoring passenger service that responds to the needs of adjacent neighborhoods, explore development potential to support passenger service, and balance the demands of current and future freight rail activity.
Just another example of a politician looking to play "Railroad Tycoon" with the public's money.
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DogBert
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Re: Lower Montauk Division Discussion

Post by DogBert » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:18 am

hrfcarl wrote: Both of these statements are true: Unless the Lower Montauk and/or Atlantic Branch can be brought into Manhattan, then there won't be much benefit.
Unless Manhattan moves into LIC and downtown brooklyn... which in the case of LIC is kinda happening. In the next 10 years it will all be high rises. Currently the majority are residential but that could change. The old paragon oil offices & blanchard building are undergoing office conversions, and at least one of the new towers at queens plaza will be commercial real estate.

Anyway - I'm curious what the next versions of her plan will be - hopefully it will have evolved significantly and not be froth with unforced errors like placing a station behind fresh direct (where there is no street access). There was no new info at a meeting she held a month ago on this proposal so I'm not holding my breath.

Unfortunately, Crowley is drinking the CURES kool-aid and has publicly stated that freight trains are a 'threat' to the community.

rr503
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Re: Lower Montauk Division Discussion

Post by rr503 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:05 am

Yeah. I went to a meeting back in May and it was a bit strange. She seemed to have one conception of the study, and the planners another. She was definitely looking or a certain outcome for it. There was a good amount of community resistance at the one I attended though -- people complaining about noise, the lack of manhattan access, and (sadly) that the construction of the line would make their neighborhood less exclusive (read: bring people of color from Richmond Hill/Jamaica).

As for freight she seemed to think that building the line could somehow prevent the PA from adding freights on it LOL

R36 Combine Coach
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Re: Lower Montauk Division Discussion

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:15 pm

DogBert wrote: Currently the majority are residential but that could change. The old paragon oil offices & blanchard building are undergoing office conversions, and at least one of the new towers at queens plaza will be commercial real estate.
Paragon Oil Building was built 1915 along with the Hunters Point IRT station, it was designed from the beginning to have a subway in the basement with direct building access and the location was its selling point.
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DogBert
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Re: Lower Montauk Division Discussion

Post by DogBert » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:36 pm

Yup - the old staircase is still in the facade of the building connecting to the station below - I'm not quite sure if/how it'll reopen once the building renovation is done, though I can't imagine the owners not leveraging that connection as a selling point. They closed those stairs sometime in the late 80s or early 90s. The history of that building is covered in this book: http://ltvsquad.com/product/7-line-l-i-c/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As for the rest of the neighborhood... https://ny.curbed.com/maps/long-island- ... uction-map" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; More new apartments than anywhere else in the country, with a population in the next 5 years that will rival many small midwest cities.

I don't think it's a matter of 'if' passenger trains will run on the lower montauk again - i think it's a question of when, and in what form. Same goes for an LIRR stop at sunnyside, or perhaps enhanced service to/from HPA.

nyandw
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Re: Lower Montauk Division Discussion

Post by nyandw » Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:11 pm

Image
FM H16-44 #1504 westbound train Borden Ave view NE 9/1963 Photo: Art Huneke

Image
LI City Westbound to LI City Passenger Yard view NE 1970 or later, as the car behind the locomotive is one of the two former Erie-Lackawanna Phoebe Snow tavern lounge observation cars. Info: Jack Deasy

Map of this area: Image
Full size: http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/licity ... k_9-58.jpg from LI CIty page:
http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/licity ... -page2.htm

rr503
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Location: North by Northwest

Re: Lower Montauk Division Discussion

Post by rr503 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:52 pm

NYCDOT came out with their final report on LMB passenger service — interesting read...

That said, their numbers for cost seem a bit high...

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/p ... an2018.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

cbag516
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Re: Lower Montauk Division Discussion

Post by cbag516 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:56 am

https://www.timesledger.com/stories/201 ... _16_q.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just another view on the matter, thought it was a quick interesting read

RestrictOnTheHanger
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Location: Formerly along the Port Jeff line

Re: Lower Montauk Division Discussion

Post by RestrictOnTheHanger » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:46 pm

Exactly which parts of the Lower Montauk and Cutoff are out of service? I spotted these freight cars a few minutes ago, taken from an express bus on the LIE just east of thr midtown tunnel

Link to photo

freightguy
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Re: Lower Montauk Division Discussion

Post by freightguy » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:37 pm

Hanger,

That picture answers your question. The bumping block on the old cutoff is right past that WMX garbage car. Other half still runs all the way to LIC passenger yard.
Signed off

Backshophoss
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Re: Lower Montauk Division Discussion

Post by Backshophoss » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:49 pm

Everything from the remains of Yard A to the Drawbridge(Cabin M) is OOS believe that also the Mainline cutoff from Mainline 1 at F tower
is also OOS/gone.
The Approach fills to the bridges from Yard A remains have been removed to make space for leads to Arch St Shop
The former cutoff trackage from the drawbridge to Bliss are now stubs used to store cars for Wheelspur yard.

The Cutoff is GONE. :(
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RestrictOnTheHanger
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Location: Formerly along the Port Jeff line

Re: Lower Montauk Division Discussion

Post by RestrictOnTheHanger » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:58 pm

freightguy wrote:Hanger,

That picture answers your question. The bumping block on the old cutoff is right past that WMX garbage car. Other half still runs all the way to LIC passenger yard.
Didnt even realize the bumper was there while on the bus, thanks!

Jeff Smith
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Re: Lower Montauk Division Discussion

Post by Jeff Smith » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:55 am

Still pushing: TheJewishVoice.com
Former NYC Councilwoman Tries to Get LIRR’s Montauk Line Running Again on Queens Track

Queens residents and officials are once again talking about using the Long Island Railroad’s Lower Montauk branch — 8.5 miles of track linking Long Island City and Jamaica – to provide rail service to communities that have no subway stops.

The line was in operation for years until 1998, when a paucity of riders moved the MTA to close it down, using it instead for Sunnyside Yard storage.

A feasibility study began in 2017 and was finished early on in 2018. It was commissioned by then-Councilwoman Elizabeth Crowley (D-Queens). She is back once more, trying to champion the project. She reportedly is asking for nine train stops for the approximately 21,000 riders per week. The project would reportedly cost $2.2 billion.
...
“As the report notes, this proposal would pose serious challenges to the MTA, in the form of high operating and capital costs at a time of substantial deficits,” MTA spokesman Max Young noted in the same article.

Another longtime supporter of the project, transportation consultant Philippa Karteron, told the Daily News, “Look at the growth in Long Island City and the growth in the Jamaica downtown area and at JFK Airport. If we could put something like this together, the corridor could be an economic development corridor, bringing in businesses, bringing in jobs.”
...
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Backshophoss
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Re: Lower Montauk Division Discussion

Post by Backshophoss » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:20 pm

The "Lower Montauk Secondary" is the "spine" of freight railroading in NYC,and the Island.with the C-3's as high platform only cars,
passenger service went bye-bye years ago.the ABS signals were retired inplace to rust away,and one of the mainlines is used for car storage.
the city council forgets this is where the trash is "packaged" to be shipped to the out of state landfills.
The Chance to save it was back when LIRR posted the discontinue service notice back in 1998! :P :P
The Land of Enchantment is not Flyover country!

BM6569
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Re: Lower Montauk Division Discussion

Post by BM6569 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:16 am

From the new MTA capital plan,

"The LIRR also plans to demolish abandoned and out-of-service structures, including the Main Line Cut-Off and Montauk Cut-Off structures, as well as Cabin M Bridge, all in Long Island City."

Are the Montauk and Main Line cut-offs different structures?

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