Phillipsburg Rail Service—Four Years, $90 Million

[CNJ Fan 4evr]

Friday Dec.11,2015 Express-Times had an article about possibility of an Amtrak inspection train running between Allentown and NY and Allentown and Phila.They say it MIGHT happen as early as next year. I won't hold my breath. They ran over the Cutoff to Scranton in 1979 and we see where that has gone in 36 years.

[philipmartin]

and we see where that has gone in 36 years.

Andover? Or is there a "wetlands" government problem there.
Below: current occupants of the cut-off.

[CNJ Fan 4evr]

That is a picture of New Jersey taxpayer money ......well spent. Is it any wonder when NJT cries poverty we say "Shut Up !!!"

[jp1822]

NJT has not disposed of the ALP44's yet? What are they waiting for? They have to be good for some scrap value. I can't think of any other electrified railroad that would want them!

[philipmartin]

When they do get it built, who's going to be able to afford to ride it? Today a round trip fare from my station, Middletown, NJ, to New York is $30.50, and some people are surprised by it. The round trips from Trenton or Annandale / High Bridge are two or three dollars more. Trans Bridge bus charges $47.50 for a round trip, Pburg- New York today, and I don't see mention of a monthly ticket on their website.

[time]

Port Jervis to Hoboken is almost $40 round trip, and people do that. It's certainly an expensive trip, but when you start thinking about gas, car maintenance and depreciation, city parking cost, time spent driving, etc., it's worth it to some people.

[ThirdRail7]

That is a picture of New Jersey taxpayer money ......well spent. Is it any wonder when NJT cries poverty we say "Shut Up !!!"

The ALP-44s as delivered were not designed to haul/push the fleet of double deckers. Remember, it was the whiny passengers that said "NO THIRD ROW SEATING," so now that you have cars without them, additional horsepower was needed. Since the cost of modifying the ALP-44s approached the cost of a new, higher horsepower engine, the decision was obvious. Ante up! You get what you order!!!!

NJT has not disposed of the ALP44's yet? What are they waiting for? They have to be good for some scrap value. I can't think of any other electrified railroad that would want them!

They are waiting for the terms and conditions they were bought under to expire. They were under a 25 year provision. Amtrak will have the same problems with the HHP-8s. Unless there is an early buyout, they will sit around until the provisions expire, sometime in the 2020s.

When they do get it built, who's going to be able to afford to ride it? Today a round trip fare from my station, Middletown, NJ, to New York is $30.50, and some people are surprised by it. The round trips from Trenton and Annandale / High Bridge are two or three dollars more. Trans Bridge bus charges $47.50 for a round trip, Pburg- New York today, and I don't see mention of a monthly ticket on their website.

This is off topic, but I always think the same thing when people reference Amtrak's high speed plan. Sure, the goal is for 220mph operation, but who will be able to afford the fare?

[SemperFidelis]

Not at all to belittle your point, because it is taken, but I think calling passengers (the customers of commuter rail) "whiney" is an odd choice. The customers of a service had a complaint and they voiced it. The service provider responded to those concerns. If this were a restaurant with seating issues we wouldn't call the patrons whiney and we would think positively of a management team that changed seating arrangements to better meet the desires of thier customers.

Is it whining to tell those that provide you with your transportation that you'd rather not be shoehorned between two strangers many of whom, this being America, might be somewhat larger than average and some of whom, people being people, will not have the best hygenic standards? I hated the middle seat and I'm glad it's gone.

Again, no offense meant to your point of view, I just don't think customers should be called whiners when they do what they're askd to do and provide thier input.

And yeah, the fares are getting out of control. My father and I took my sons on an excursion to Hoboken from Port Jervis last year and got weekend fares, disabled fares, etc. and it cost under $50. This year, the same trip is going to cost a little over $100. Ridiculous.

[ThirdRail7]

Not at all to belittle your point, because it is taken, but I think calling passengers (the customers of commuter rail) "whiney" is an odd choice. The customers of a service had a complaint and they voiced it. The service provider responded to those concerns. If this were a restaurant with seating issues we wouldn't call the patrons whiney and we would think positively of a management team that changed seating arrangements to better meet the desires of thier customers.

Is it whining to tell those that provide you with your transportation that you'd rather not be shoehorned between two strangers many of whom, this being America, might be somewhat larger than average and some of whom, people being people, will not have the best hygenic standards? I hated the middle seat and I'm glad it's gone.

Again, no offense meant to your point of view, I just don't think customers should be called whiners when they do what they're askd to do and provide thier input.

And yeah, the fares are getting out of control. My father and I took my sons on an excursion to Hoboken from Port Jervis last year and got weekend fares, disabled fares, etc. and it cost under $50. This year, the same trip is going to cost a little over $100. Ridiculous.

Your point is taken as well, sir. Passengers of the served voiced their preference. It was answered....however, the implications are partially responsible for higher fares...to which there are additional complaints...that is why I used the term whiney.

You can't have it both ways. The ALPS-44 could have gone on for quite some time if NJT ordered single level equipment. The capital funds used to purchase the ALP-46s/ALP-46a could have been spent on other things or preserved. However, they listened to their passengers and ordered these heavy, HEP sucking cars....so someone doesn't have to occupy the middle seat. You received what you asked for. Why complain about benched, outmoded equipment?

It is frustrating to see a constant wave of complaints when you actually gave people what they asked for.

[CNJ Fan 4evr]

How many more passengers do the bi-levels hold ? When I view them from the outside it looks like the ends of the cars are "wasted space". Mind you that is observing them from outside only . I have never been in one.

[Nicholas Chen]

I'm assuming you mean multilevels not bilevels (NJT and AMT run multilevels, GO and Caltrain, etc. run bilevels)

They are supposed to hold:

• 127 for the cab cars
• 142 for the trailer cars
• 132 for the trailer cars with restrooms

For comparison, Comet Vs are supposed to hold 109-117 people.
I do believe when the Multilevels were out NJT said they were supposed to hold 20% more people.
The ends if the car aren't exactly wasted space they are flip down seats for bikes and wheelcahirs and also have the restrooms on cars with them.

And yes, fares have gotten quite expensive, but a bus ride on Martz Trailways is hovering around $40 for a one way trip to New York from the Mt Pocono area. I don't want to know how expensive the train will be.

[mohawkrailfan]

The ends if the car aren't exactly wasted space they are flip down seats for bikes and wheelcahirs and also have the restrooms on cars with them.

I'd also add that those sections have the only racks on the MLVs where you can store an average suitcase.

[ccutler]

Another benefit of the multilevels' 20% increased capacity over comet cars is that NJ transit has more capacity per foot of length at its platforms at NYP and Newark. If seats were the only consideration, NJ Transit could have removed the 5-seat row chairs and replaced them with 4-seat row chairs.
Of course, maybe NJ Transit hired an engineering firm for a hefty fee who determined that the cost of replacing the chairs was higher than buying new passenger cars.

[Ken W2KB]

I'm assuming you mean multilevels not bilevels (NJT and AMT run multilevels, GO and Caltrain, etc. run bilevels)

They are supposed to hold:

• 127 for the cab cars
• 142 for the trailer cars
• 132 for the trailer cars with restrooms

For comparison, Comet Vs are supposed to hold 109-117 people.
I do believe when the Multilevels were out NJT said they were supposed to hold 20% more people.
The ends if the car aren't exactly wasted space they are flip down seats for bikes and wheelcahirs and also have the restrooms on cars with them.

And yes, fares have gotten quite expensive, but a bus ride on Martz Trailways is hovering around $40 for a one way trip to New York from the Mt Pocono area. I don't want to know how expensive the train will be.

Also, the overhead luggage racks in the end seating area will fit large bags. The lower and upper seating areas accommodate nothing or briefcase size.

[NIMBYkiller]

My apologies if this isn't the right thread for this (in which case some direction would be appreciated) or if it's already been covered, but if this extension were actually to go all the way to Allentown, what would be the running time to NYP? Let's assume after P'burg it went express to Newark just to speed things up. How would it compare to an extension from Hackettstown instead?