Begging for PRSL location help...

Discussion relating to the PRSL

Moderator: JJMDiMunno

JJMDiMunno
Posts: 739
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:55 am
Location: Hi Nella, NJ

Begging for PRSL location help...

Post by JJMDiMunno » Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:12 pm

Hey gentlemen,
I need some help here. While looking through a box from my recently deceased aunt's house, I found a small remnant of what was once my uncle's giant PRSL slide collection (which I know he had, don't know what happened to the rest). I found a total of 80 slides, but am having trouble identifying some of these locations, probably due to how different things look now. These slides are all labeled simply "camden"...I'd like some more detailed information, if possible.

Here's links to the scanned images:

http://members.aol.com/jjmdimunno/PRSL/PRSL1.jpg
http://members.aol.com/jjmdimunno/PRSL/PRSL2.jpg
http://members.aol.com/jjmdimunno/PRSL/PRSL3.jpg
http://members.aol.com/jjmdimunno/PRSL/PRSL4.jpg
http://members.aol.com/jjmdimunno/PRSL/PRSL5.jpg
http://members.aol.com/jjmdimunno/PRSL/PRSL6.jpg
http://members.aol.com/jjmdimunno/PRSL/PRSL7.jpg
http://members.aol.com/jjmdimunno/PRSL/PRSL8.jpg

He shot lots of material, sadly someone else already grabbed most of his collection and probably sold them off or threw them out (there are some non-railfan non-historian vulchers in my family that like to take everything wheather they can use it or not)...he's been deceased for 14 years now, luckily I managed to find this much (wasn't even supposed to be there, all this stuff had supposidly disappeared).

Anyway, thanks in advance for any help guys.

Mike DiMunno
www.SJRail.com: All about South Jersey Railroads!
~Mike DiMunno
CSAO Beesley Point Secondary - MP 8.69 (Magnolia, NJ)
Moderator: Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Lines :: Penn Central

TR-00

Post by TR-00 » Thu Aug 19, 2004 7:41 pm

1. east of Brodway Station crossing Haddon Ave.

2. eastbound train at Allegheny Ave. in Philly

3. west of Brodway on old terminal leads at 3rd Street

4. arriving in Pavonia from Delair Bridge. Hopper car is next to 28th and Sherman Ave.

5. Same as # 3

6. westbound at Frankfort Station. Train is on Bridge Branch at SHORE

7. taken looking east from the end of Broadway Station Center Tower is visible

8. Salem Branch northbound train between Woodstown and Oldman's Creek

JJMDiMunno
Posts: 739
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:55 am
Location: Hi Nella, NJ

Post by JJMDiMunno » Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:10 am

TR-00 wrote:8. Salem Branch northbound train between Woodstown and Oldman's Creek
TR,
Is this a guess, or solid information? The original slide mount said "Camden"...but I doubt it...

Mike DiMunno
~Mike DiMunno
CSAO Beesley Point Secondary - MP 8.69 (Magnolia, NJ)
Moderator: Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Lines :: Penn Central

JJMDiMunno
Posts: 739
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:55 am
Location: Hi Nella, NJ

Post by JJMDiMunno » Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:42 am

TR,
If I asked you if it might be on the Clementon Branch, between Camden and Winslow, would that change your mind? Take a look at those poles...

Mike DiMunno
~Mike DiMunno
CSAO Beesley Point Secondary - MP 8.69 (Magnolia, NJ)
Moderator: Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Lines :: Penn Central

PRSLTrainman
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed May 19, 2004 10:46 pm

Post by PRSLTrainman » Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:27 am

TR,

I was also wondering about photo PRSL8. In particular, please share with me how you can tell the train is northbound.

The landscape, railroad, and train manifest all would be typical of the Salem branch. However, if so, the two GP-38s on the point would indicate that the move was a Salem extra freight, probably on a Sunday and probably headed southbound. Extra freights on Sunday were called to empty out Pavonia, and to move as much freight down the road on Sunday when the power was available to avoid trains on Monday too heavy for their usual power. Salem extras would therefore move freight southbound (often leaving Pavonia with 70-90 cars with maybe 30 cars or so for Salem after setoffs in Woodbury and Woodstown), but would rarely return from Salem with more than a cab. Any northbound frieght in Salem would go on Monday with WY-50.

Also, I have a question about photo PRSL4. I agree the photographer is looking north from about 27th st. I only knew Pavonia first-hand after the yard was rebuilt when the old Camden roundhouse and yard closed. The electrified tracks on the left (west) side of the photo headed down to in front of the yardmasters office. In the photo there appears to be catenary over tracks on the right (east) side of the photo. If so, where did they go and what purpose did they serve?

Thanks.

JJMDiMunno
Posts: 739
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:55 am
Location: Hi Nella, NJ

Post by JJMDiMunno » Fri Aug 20, 2004 12:27 pm

PRSLTrainman wrote:TR,
The landscape, railroad, and train manifest all would be typical of the Salem branch. However, if so, the two GP-38s on the point would indicate that the move was a Salem extra freight, probably on a Sunday and probably headed southbound. Extra freights on Sunday were called to empty out Pavonia, and to move as much freight down the road on Sunday when the power was available to avoid trains on Monday too heavy for their usual power. Salem extras would therefore move freight southbound (often leaving Pavonia with 70-90 cars with maybe 30 cars or so for Salem after setoffs in Woodbury and Woodstown), but would rarely return from Salem with more than a cab. Any northbound frieght in Salem would go on Monday with WY-50.
In reality, even though I posed the original question, I don't see how this can be on the Salem. I've looked through every old photo I've got in the file, every modern photo for any remnants...and I see NO poles even resembling those ones in PRSL 8. The only places I can find poles like this, are in two places. On the Beesley's, primarily between Williamstown and Winslow, and the other is on the Cape May Branch, between Tuckahoe and around Woodbine. This is after closer examination and some logic...when I posted this original message, I had just found the slides about 1 hour before, and hadn't closely looked at them yet to determine a location...

Mike DiMunno
~Mike DiMunno
CSAO Beesley Point Secondary - MP 8.69 (Magnolia, NJ)
Moderator: Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Lines :: Penn Central

TR-00

Post by TR-00 » Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:15 pm

Ref pic number 8:

The photographer is standing on the farm property of Charles Vesper, facing to the Southeast. Woodstown Road is behind the train, thus the train is headed north. He is approaching Seven Stars (or Point Airy) Road.

For those of us who pounded spikes to make a buck, Seven Stars Road was always a problem. The train is beginning up a long but slight grade that was subject to sunkinks every summer. We were there at least once a week, cutting, fitting and relining. I understand that still occurs.

The poles were not uncommon, as you can see if looking at shots of Swedesboro or Woodstown in the 1950's. Obviously, when this picture was taken, they were no longer in service since they end only seven poles away from the photographer. There are still a few of these along the line, but none that I am aware of in open country.

It may well be a Salem extra. The covered hoppers would be empties from Anchor Glass and most likely the box cars are from the HJ Heinz plant. It sure is made up for return to Camden (with probably a few empties at DelMonte).

The others are not guesses. I am familiar with the area beginning in 1967 when I literally walked every mile owned as a casual trackworker.

At Pavonia, the wires did end at the 27th Street bridge. The wires to the right lead to the two engine tracks where the electrics laid over between runs.

PRSLTrainman
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed May 19, 2004 10:46 pm

Post by PRSLTrainman » Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:38 pm

Mr. TR has an extensive knowledge of the PRSL railroad, and I would tend to trust his judgement. A close look at the railroad (track) in the picture resembles either the Salem or Bridgeton branch of 1970, both inferior to the Clementon, Cape May, Millville, etc. branches.

Regarding the poles ... Even though by 1970 PRSL trains were dispatched by train orders delivered via radio, most of the old block phones (wired) were still operational and used on rare occasions to communicate with the tower operator. So the poles and block phone wires were still very much intact trackside, even after the phones themselves went dead for good.

PRSLTrainman
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed May 19, 2004 10:46 pm

Post by PRSLTrainman » Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:57 pm

TR,

Thanks for your reply post and jogging my fading memory. Salem extras would typically pull down the Millville main at Woodbury past the tower and drill out their train on the main and two yard tracks south of tower, leaving a block of cars for WY-33 to pick up in the morning. They would then shove back over Cooper St., and proceed down the Salem branch, setting off another block of cars at *Swedesboro* (not Woodstown as I said earlier) on their way down to Salem.

TR-00

Post by TR-00 » Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:51 pm

The extensive knowledge comes from running the shoe leather express, carrying a lining bar, spike maul, spud wrench and bag of spikes...5 miles each way every day. Man, I have it good now.

JJMDiMunno
Posts: 739
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:55 am
Location: Hi Nella, NJ

Post by JJMDiMunno » Sat Aug 21, 2004 2:56 am

TR-00 wrote:The extensive knowledge comes from running the shoe leather express, carrying a lining bar, spike maul, spud wrench and bag of spikes...5 miles each way every day. Man, I have it good now.
Thanks TR. Yeah, I'll now agree, Salem Branch. I was going entirely on the poles, which are probably gone now.

So I can properly label this slide, what town would we consider that to be?

Mike DiMunno
www.SJRail.com: All about South Jersey Railroads!
~Mike DiMunno
CSAO Beesley Point Secondary - MP 8.69 (Magnolia, NJ)
Moderator: Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Lines :: Penn Central

Return to “Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Lines”