Who picked Penn Central graphics and colors?

Discussion relating to the Penn Central, up until its 1976 inclusion in Conrail. Visit the Penn Central Railroad Historical Society for more information.

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CarterB
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Post by CarterB » Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:28 am

I must respectfully disagree about the 'oversexed worms' and "upset stomach" green choices for a railroad with such prior elegant design and color schemes history. To me at the time,as well as now, the Penn Central graphics were downright ugly. I am sure that in their financial dire straits the PC managers told whatever ad agency to 'do it quick and do it cheap'. The results speak for themselves.
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motor
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Post by motor » Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:24 am

I've never seen so much passionate disagreement on anything outside of sports as that logo. I never thought of it as a worm before I started perusing rr websites.

motor

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Post by 3rdrail » Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:54 pm

It appears to me that there was some consideration when they devised the logo. I see two things in it, the first being agreement with Dieter in that it was "futuristic". It certainly was a departure from the New Havens script logo. I think that the italicized font represented speed, and for a NEC road, was meant to convey that impression also. Perhaps the hind-sight of knowing what happened has jaded our look at what could have been a premier logo.
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Post by ajt » Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:35 pm

Check out the color and font of this bank!

http://www.cliftonsavings.com/Locations ... g_tpk.html

motor
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Post by motor » Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:43 am

ajt wrote:Check out the color and font of this bank!

http://www.cliftonsavings.com/Locations ... g_tpk.html
ajt, what the feelings were of whoever signed off on CSB's imaging towards PC's, one never knows. Certainly not this bank teller's son.

And as long as we're talking banks... Dieter, you see little imagination behind the name. Well, reversing the words might have wrought confusion, at least in the Delaware Valley (what metro Philadelphia inhabitants call that metropolitan area, for those who don't know), with, well, click on this http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company- ... story.html and scroll down to Company History

CarterB, you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on the logo. I liked it then. I still like it now. I still don't think of it as worms (then again, I don't fish).

motor

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Otto Vondrak
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Post by Otto Vondrak » Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:59 pm

This is the most Penn Central-ish bank logo yet!!


Image
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3rdrail
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Post by 3rdrail » Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:49 pm

Oh yeah, that's a riot. They tried so hard to emulate it, they put the "N" on it's side ! :P
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Re: Who Picked Penn Central graphics and colors

Post by Mitch » Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:34 am

mdamico23 wrote:I think it was the McMahon & Tate Advertising Agency... :) LOL...
-Mike
McMahon and Tate? No wonder the merger was bewitched.
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Re:

Post by Mitch » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:05 am

Otto Vondrak wrote:This is the most Penn Central-ish bank logo yet!!


Image
I here Walthers is coming out with that bank logo as a decal.

By the way, all kidding still present, I liked the PC insignia. It makes one shape, and is recognizable. I'm not a fan at all of the typeface "Eurostyle."

Way back in the innocent summer of 1966 my good friend and I would wander over to South Chicago and Jeffrey on Chicago's South Side to the NYC/PRR main line. We would climb the embankment with sacks of Carl's hot dogs and fries, and wait for the parade which included the Valpo locals, The General, The New England States, and of course "The Century," and "The Broadway." We did this faithfully almost every afternoon. Our main topic of conversation was what things were going to be like if and when the merger took place. We had no idea of what the new name would be.

Our discussions centered around if the lines merged would "The Century" be painted Tuscan, or would "The Broadway" be painted grey. What dopes we were. It goes right along with the discussions of what "The 20th Century Limited" would be called once we were in the 21st century. We even discussed what a government operated passenger service would look like. I said that would be awfull. They'd (the government aency) would have the observation car in the middle and a baggage car on the hind end.

In previous posts I've mentioned my involvement with The Grand Uniform Company that was at Grand Central Terminal. Grand made the NYC, and NH uniforms. When the merger took place Grand made the PC uniforms for employees of those districts. I bring this up because the only time that visuals of the 2 lines were perfectly merged was in the PC uniforms. To be brief and specific I'll mention the uniform cap badges of The PC. It was a perfect merger. To those of you just waking up this morning the cap badge was the same shape as a NYC badge. The metal (thick, molded, and plated) had the same background texture as a Pennsy badge. The PC insignia was in transparent deep red enamel, and the occupation was in black letters, all similar to the Pennsy badge. The caps had no ornamentation except for 'cap-wire" buttons on the sides. The caps themselves came from Grossman Cap of Phily and were the same as the Pennsy's. To me the uniform was traditional but up-dated. The cap was dignified. I liked it so much that I tried to get The Milwaukee road to change its own cap badges to look similar to PC's, and to have our uniforms made by Grand. I failed at the former, and succeeded at the latter.

In fact when I drew up the specs for Metra's trainmen's uniforms I used those of the PC that had proven so servicable. In fact the Metra caps come from Grossman's succesor, Keystone Cap.

One more thing. In 1978 we went east on Amtrak 48. There it was at Union Station. An observation car in the middle and a baggage car on the hind end.
Mitch

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Otto Vondrak
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Re: Who picked Penn Central graphics and colors?

Post by Otto Vondrak » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:52 am

>>>By the way, all kidding still present, I liked the PC insignia. It makes one shape, and is recognizable. I'm not a fan at all of the typeface "Eurostyle."

Penn Central's typeface (Eurostile Bold Extended Two Oblique) was hard to find commercially, so I had to go an invent my own:

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Re: Who picked Penn Central graphics and colors?

Post by Tadman » Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:40 am

Observation in the middle and baggage at the end? Kind of like a mid-train sightseer lounge and M&E at the tail end?
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Re: Who picked Penn Central graphics and colors?

Post by Mitch » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:17 pm

Tadman wrote:Observation in the middle and baggage at the end? Kind of like a mid-train sightseer lounge and M&E at the tail end?
I should have said a "round-end" observation car in the middle with a "phone-booth" holding the attached diaphragm. A sightseer is different as it's made to run in the middle.

In 1966 that was unthinkable. In 1975 it was plain wrong. Now...Who cares?
Mitch

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Re: Who picked Penn Central graphics and colors?

Post by JimBoylan » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:00 pm

Mitch wrote:The caps themselves came from Grossman Cap of Phily and were the same as the Pennsy's. In fact the Metra caps come from Grossman's succesor, Keystone Cap.
Are you sure Grossman was PRR? In the mid-1970s, I was buying the New Hope & Ivyland RR's hats, and I'm sure I got them from Grossman's in Philadelphia because they supplied the Reading Railroad! They were just East of Reading Terminal, on Cherry St., but they did move to or from Arch or Race St., half a block away, in that era.
I think the PRR's supplier was in the West end of the Suburban Station Concourse, between 17th and 18th Sts., and listed someone's initials in front of the name on the door glass.
Thank you for your information, and help with my memory.

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Re: Who picked Penn Central graphics and colors?

Post by Mitch » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:49 pm

JimBoylan wrote:
Mitch wrote:The caps themselves came from Grossman Cap of Phily and were the same as the Pennsy's. In fact the Metra caps come from Grossman's succesor, Keystone Cap.
Are you sure Grossman was PRR? In the mid-1970s, I was buying the New Hope & Ivyland RR's hats, and I'm sure I got them from Grossman's in Philadelphia because they supplied the Reading Railroad! They were just East of Reading Terminal, on Cherry St., but they did move to or from Arch or Race St., half a block away, in that era.
I think the PRR's supplier was in the West end of the Suburban Station Concourse, between 17th and 18th Sts., and listed someone's initials in front of the name on the door glass.
Thank you for your information, and help with my memory.
Grossman was the manufacturer of the caps themselves. They made PRR caps, which were an off-shoot of a city fireman's cap. In fact that shape of cap top, belled out farther than a stovepipe or "Conductor's" style, was known as a "Fireman's Crown." Staten Island Rapid Transit used this shape, in black grosgrain silk (with a row of yellow "suitasche around the center and a black knot cord held by cap wire buttons.) Grossman also made the caps used by the Reading, and supplied caps to Grand Uniform for the NYC and NJC.

So your uniform supplier would buy their stock from the cap manufacturer and sell them retail. When The Milwaukee Road used Grand Uniform, as did some of the Rock Island guys, and all of the BN in the late '70s all those caps came from Grossman.
Mitch

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Re: Who picked Penn Central graphics and colors?

Post by Dieter » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:08 pm

Let's blow some more dust off these Worms; anybody ever recall as part of the PC logo. Was there ever any kind of SLOGAN beneath it? I seem to recall something on rare occasion.

We had "Road To The Future" from Central, "Standard Railroad of the World" from PRR. PC had to have had something and I can't seem to recall it.....

Anybody?

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