Unique Locomotives Worldwide

General discussion about locomotives, rolling stock, and equipment

Moderator: John_Perkowski

Pensyfan19
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:32 pm
Location: somewhere on planet Earth, where the G5s once roamed

Unique Locomotives Worldwide

Post by Pensyfan19 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:37 pm

This thread is for any but not limited to experimental, little known, or straight up ugly steam, diesel, electric locomotives that might be out there. I'll start with the OBB 1082.

http://www.locomodel.it/Pagine/Locomode ... 82_H0.html
"Look down, step over, and watch the gap!" - Dr. John Clarke, the Gap Rap, 2010

I am a believer of railfanning rule 101: if it exists, a private corporation can run it better.

RRspatch
Posts: 264
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:22 am
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Post by RRspatch » Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:24 am

ADMIN NOTE
Content redacted in its entirety.
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel
Is just a freight train coming your way

No leaf clover ~ Metallica.

Pensyfan19
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:32 pm
Location: somewhere on planet Earth, where the G5s once roamed

Re: Unique Locomotives Worldwide

Post by Pensyfan19 » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:37 pm

Thank you for translating that. However, I made this thread for people to discuss locomotives and multiple units which would be considered as unusual, and I used the OBB 1082 as an example.
"Look down, step over, and watch the gap!" - Dr. John Clarke, the Gap Rap, 2010

I am a believer of railfanning rule 101: if it exists, a private corporation can run it better.

Pensyfan19
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:32 pm
Location: somewhere on planet Earth, where the G5s once roamed

Re: Unique Locomotives Worldwide

Post by Pensyfan19 » Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:44 pm

Here is another example! (There is no need to explain what it is. The purpose of this discussion is to post unusual, unorthodox, and/or straight up ugly pieces of rolling stock that may have or still does exist.)

https://trainspo.com/photo/99124/
"Look down, step over, and watch the gap!" - Dr. John Clarke, the Gap Rap, 2010

I am a believer of railfanning rule 101: if it exists, a private corporation can run it better.

Pensyfan19
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:32 pm
Location: somewhere on planet Earth, where the G5s once roamed

Re: Unique Locomotives Worldwide

Post by Pensyfan19 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:57 pm

Post what you deem unique equipment in this thread
I'll give yet another example

(You're probably going to hate me for this BUT... :P )
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"Look down, step over, and watch the gap!" - Dr. John Clarke, the Gap Rap, 2010

I am a believer of railfanning rule 101: if it exists, a private corporation can run it better.

Allen Hazen
Posts: 2488
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:14 pm
Location: Edmonton, Canada (formerly Melbourne, Australia)

Re: Unique Locomotives Worldwide

Post by Allen Hazen » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:47 pm

Beauty... may or may not be in the eye of the beholder, but some of these unusual locomotives are very interesting: thanks for posting links to the photos!
--
The second -- the orange BART unit ( https://trainspo.com/photo/99124/ ) is fairly straightforward. BART is a subway line: its track maintenance (etc) has to be done in tunnels. So obviously they might need a low-profile locomotive to fit into their restrictive clearance envelope. Enter RELCO, a rebuilder. The trucks look like standard switcher trucks (what are often called "Type A"), but would probably have to have been modified to first extra-length axles: BART's lines are broad gauge (I think 5'6" -- a gauge used on much of India's railway network -- instead of Standard 4'8.5"). At a guess, the frame is from a retired switcher, or maybe Geep, with a home-built cab matching the height of the engine hoods. Why RELCO? Well, at one time GE would have been the go-to people for subway worktrain locomotives (the New York subways had a whole fleet of what looked like under-nourished 70 tonners), but more recently GE's locomotive division apparently decided that concentrating on a few models of big, mainline, freight diesels was more profitable than custom-building units for special applications.

The first, the Austrian (ÖBB abbreviates "Austrian Railways" in German) unit is altogether more interesting. Built during the steam era, its mechanical design (side-rodded 2-10-2) is clearly steam inspired. AC is better for overhead wires (allows high voltage to minimize energy loss, which can then be reduced to safe levels by transformers on the locomotives), but AC traction motors were not ideal: adopted faute de mieux by many railroads, but seldom first choice. Modern freight diesels (starting in the early 1990s in the U.S., somewhat earlier, I think, in Europe) have AC motors, but this is only possible because of technologies (solid state rectifiers and inverters, micro-computer control) that didn't become available until many decades after the Austrian critter shown. Single-phase AC motors (as on the GG-1, etc) apparently didn't appeal to the Austrians, at least for high horsepower applications. Motors like those on modern diesels (and on various early experimental, such as the Pennsylvania Railroad's "Big Liz" FF-1), if you don't have computer controlled inverters, are only efficient at fixed speeds. It looks (the technical details are pretty brief, and my Italian isn't great) as if the designer of this unit tried to get around the problem by allowing several different kinds of current to be supplied to the motors, using -- remember, this was before solid state rectifiers and inverters -- rotary converters. (For comparison, the PRR FF-1 allowed electrical connections to be changed to give efficient operation at two different fixed speeds: allow more changes in the connections, and employ specially trained/skilled engine crew, and you might get some rough approximation of the benefits of today's continually variable frequency.) Some of the major above-deck electrical equipment was cylindrical in shape (rotary converters: basically big electric motors permanently attached to generators), so the boiler-shaped "long hood" made sense... as well as perhaps making people familiar with steam locomotives feel more comfortable! A fascinating specimen of what early 20th C technology could provide!

Allen Hazen
Posts: 2488
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:14 pm
Location: Edmonton, Canada (formerly Melbourne, Australia)

Re: Unique Locomotives Worldwide

Post by Allen Hazen » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:58 pm

Two further bits--
What I first thought, looking at the cylindrical, boiler-like, "long hood" and the pantographs was that it was an attempt to build a steam locomotive on which, instead of having a fire-box, used electric heat to boil the water! I don't know whether this has ever been tried on a full sized locomotive -- I imagine the efficiency would be very low -- but a few years back I saw an ad for an HO-scale, live steam, steam locomotive in which the water was boiled by electric current. (Maybe ordinary 12volt DC?)
Second, for people wanting look at weird and wonderful steam locomotives, I recommend
http://douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/locoloco.htm
---
Thanks again, Pennsyfan19, for starting this!

Motorman
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:18 am

Re: Unique Locomotives Worldwide

Post by Motorman » Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:30 am

Allen Hazen wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:58 pm
Two further bits--
What I first thought, looking at the cylindrical, boiler-like, "long hood" and the pantographs was that it was an attempt to build a steam locomotive on which, instead of having a fire-box, used electric heat to boil the water! I don't know whether this has ever been tried on a full sized locomotive -- I imagine the efficiency would be very low -- but a few years back I saw an ad for an HO-scale, live steam, steam locomotive in which the water was boiled by electric current. (Maybe ordinary 12volt DC?)
Second, for people wanting look at weird and wonderful steam locomotives, I recommend
http://douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/locoloco.htm
---
Thanks again, Pennsyfan19, for starting this!
Electric heated steam? Well, here you are:
http://douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO ... isselc.htm From Douglas himself. :-D

Pensyfan19
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:32 pm
Location: somewhere on planet Earth, where the G5s once roamed

Re: unique Locomotives Worldwide

Post by Pensyfan19 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:17 pm

Motorman wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:30 am
Allen Hazen wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:58 pm
Two further bits--
What I first thought, looking at the cylindrical, boiler-like, "long hood" and the pantographs was that it was an attempt to build a steam locomotive on which, instead of having a fire-box, used electric heat to boil the water! I don't know whether this has ever been tried on a full sized locomotive -- I imagine the efficiency would be very low -- but a few years back I saw an ad for an HO-scale, live steam, steam locomotive in which the water was boiled by electric current. (Maybe ordinary 12volt DC?)
Second, for people wanting look at weird and wonderful steam locomotives, I recommend
http://douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/locoloco.htm
---
Thanks again, Pennsyfan19, for starting this!
Electric heated steam? Well, here you are:
http://douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO ... isselc.htm From Douglas himself. :-D
Thank you for the recommendation. I am familiar with that site. I also made this thread for any other interesting, unusual or almost unheard of locomotives to be shared which could be found elsewhere other than that website.
"Look down, step over, and watch the gap!" - Dr. John Clarke, the Gap Rap, 2010

I am a believer of railfanning rule 101: if it exists, a private corporation can run it better.

ExCon90
Posts: 4586
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:22 pm

Re: Unique Locomotives Worldwide

Post by ExCon90 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:00 pm

Allen Hazen wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:58 pm
Two further bits--
What I first thought, looking at the cylindrical, boiler-like, "long hood" and the pantographs was that it was an attempt to build a steam locomotive on which, instead of having a fire-box, used electric heat to boil the water! I don't know whether this has ever been tried on a full sized locomotive -- I imagine the efficiency would be very low -- but a few years back I saw an ad for an HO-scale, live steam, steam locomotive in which the water was boiled by electric current. (Maybe ordinary 12volt DC?)
The caption mentions somewhere in there that the engine could be operated in either direction with just the one cab. It looks like they rounded the housing to match the interior machinery to give the engineer a forward view, when operating with the cab at the rear, no worse than he would have on a conventional steam locomotive. I also note that there is no mention that either engine was ever used in regular revenue service. Well, live and learn ...

Allen Hazen
Posts: 2488
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:14 pm
Location: Edmonton, Canada (formerly Melbourne, Australia)

Re: Unique Locomotives Worldwide

Post by Allen Hazen » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:01 pm

Motorman--
Thanks! I probably saw that article on the "Locoloco" site at some point, but didn't recall it in detail, and obviously didn't look hard enough last night before posting my comment and link.
It's a crazy idea (electric heat is just too expensive to use for raising steam), but in the special circumstances of Switzerland during WW II, with all the neighbouring countries from which coal could otherwise be imported too much in need to export any, for a small locomotive like a switch engine, justifiable.

Pneudyne
Posts: 367
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:13 pm
Location: Mt. Maunganui, New Zealand

Re: Unique Locomotives Worldwide

Post by Pneudyne » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:26 pm

As well as being unusual in its appearance, the OBB 1082 was also somewhat anachronistic in being, in 1931, a low-frequency (16⅔ Hz) single-phase locomotive fitted with rotary conversion equipment, although this type of equipment had a niche in medium-frequency (25 Hz) and industrial frequency (50 Hz) applications. Behn Eschenburg had developed a satisfactory low-frequency single-phase commutator motor circa 1906, and one could say that by the 1920s, this kind of motor could adequately address virtually all requirements on the 16⅔ Hz roads, including regenerative braking. Thus it was used almost exclusively by such roads until later technologies became available, and even then, there was quite a disparity in changeover times. The advent of mercury arc rectifiers had little impact on these roads. Rather the changeover began when silicon rectifiers became available. Some roads made any early move to this technology, others waited until thyristor technology became available, and SBB (Switzerland) apparently waited until AC-AC technology with 3-phase traction motors became available.

The design of single-phase motors for higher frequencies was more problematical, the difficulties increasing with frequency (*). Thus locomotives with rotary conversion equipment stayed as current types for 25 and 50 Hz applications until mercury arc rectifiers suitable for traction applications became available. In the 25 Hz case it was more-or-less sudden death for both single-phase commutator motors and rotary conversion as soon as the ignitron rectifier was usable. In the 50 Hz case the transition had more overlap.

Another electrically unusual locomotive was the SNCF (France) CC14000 class. In the pre-electronic days it sought to take advantage of the 3-phase squirrel cage induction motor. (Earlier single-phase-to-three-phase locomotives had used induction motors with wound rotors, which operated at stepped variable frequencies). These squirrel cage traction motors required a continuously variable voltage, continuously variable frequency feed (with voltage proportional to frequency) with the respective ranges being 0 to 1350 volts and 0 to 135 Hz. This was obtained (from the 25 kV, 50 Hz single-phase supply) by the use of two interconnected AC-DC rotary machines.

Dumont p.52.png
SNCF 14000 Equipment.png

Appearance-wise they very similar to the CC14100 class, which was of the more common AC-DC motor-generator type. So the unusuality of the CC14000 was under the skin. The design was not repeated. Apparently it required frequent adjustments to keep working properly, and anyway it was soon clear to SNCF that rectifier locomotives were the best way forward. (In the pre-silicon era, SNCF used both ignitron and excitron rectifiers, the latter particularly where regenerative braking was required.)


(*) Binney provided a quite accessible explanation for this in his book “Electric Traction Engineering” of 1955, in chapter 6, “The Single-Phase Traction Motor”.


Cheers,
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Pneudyne
Posts: 367
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:13 pm
Location: Mt. Maunganui, New Zealand

Re: Unique Locomotives Worldwide

Post by Pneudyne » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:34 pm

I think that the Japanese (JNR and its predecessors) EF55 class electric locomotive falls into the unusual category.

JNR EF55.jpg
JNR EF55 diagram.png

It was a double-cab bidirectional locomotive, streamlined at one end but blunt at the other, Cape gauge. The wheel arrangement was 2-C+C-1, with the four-wheel guiding truck at the streamlined, or “fast” end.

Asymmetrical wheel arrangements in and of themselves were not so unusual, and in the field of electric locomotives there were for example 2-C-1, 2-D-1 and C-B locomotives to be found. However, the EF55 was the only 2-C+C-1 example. Three were built in 1936.

One may speculate as to how JNR, etc. arrived at this design. In 1923 it had received some 2-C+C-2 passenger locomotives from English Electric (UK), the first anywhere of this wheel arrangement, these becoming the EF50 class. Then in 1926 it received some 1-C+C-1 locomotives from Westinghouse, also for passenger service, these becoming the EF51 class. Apparently based upon its experience with these, JNR chose the 2-C+C-2 wheel arrangement for its future passenger locomotives, and 1-C+C-1 for its future freight locomotives, which operated at lower top speeds. That was I think consistent with the worldwide experience, which was that articulated-truck locomotives, for example of the C+C type, tended to be rough riding and hard on the track. These tendencies could be tamed somewhat by adding two-wheel pilot trucks, but four-wheel pilot trucks were better for the higher speeds. (For the highest speeds, the addition of a lateral restraint device for the main trucks and possibly lateral restraints for the pilot trucks was considered desirable.)

In the 1930s, the JNR 2-C+C-2 locomotives were all of the non-streamlined, bidirectional boxcab type. Evidently JNR wanted a streamlined locomotive for some of its passenger services. Streamlining with some form of nose end was better done at one end only if there was a requirement that visually, the locomotive should blend in with the trains that it hauled, meaning that the rear end should be more-or-less vertical. Whilst the blunt rear end had a driving cab, presumably for lower-speed manoevering purposes, out on the line, at higher speeds, it would have operated only with the streamlined end forward. That being the case, it was seen that whilst the front end required a 2-C truck, a 1-C truck (of the type used for freight locomotives) would suffice for the trailing end. From that one might infer that JNR thought that the extra stability conferred by the four-wheel pilot truck was required at the front end, but was less important at the rear end.

Be that as it may, JNR did not acquire any more of the EF55 type. Perhaps the 2-C+C-1 wheel arrangement did not work as well as expected, or perhaps what was effectively a single-ended locomotive was found to be operationally awkward in an environment where the bidirectional type was the norm. Rather it continued to build both the 2-C+C-2 and 1-C+C-1 types, periodically updated, through to 1958, eventually amassing 237 of the former and 297 of the latter. (Worldwide majority numbers in both cases.) The later post-WWII 2-C+C-2 types had semi-streamlined boxcab bodies.

Electrically all of these locomotives, including the EF55, were quite normal, that is working from a 1500 volts DC supply with resistance and motor-grouping control, and without any form of electric braking. So the unusual nature of the EF55 was confined to its appearance and its wheel arrangement.


Cheers,
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

John_Perkowski
Posts: 4931
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:12 pm
Location: Off the Q main near Parkville MO

Re: Unique Locomotives Worldwide

Post by John_Perkowski » Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:59 pm

You guys want ugly?

Here is Deutsche Reichsbahns 219 class diesel hydraulic.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
~John Perkowski: Moderator: General Discussion: Locomotives, Rolling Stock, and Equipment
Assistant Administrator: Railroad.net/forums
Jeff Smith & Greg Primrose now own railroad.net!

John_Perkowski
Posts: 4931
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:12 pm
Location: Off the Q main near Parkville MO

Re: Unique Locomotives Worldwide

Post by John_Perkowski » Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:01 pm

Moderator note

Reopened at the request of Allen Haven.
~John Perkowski: Moderator: General Discussion: Locomotives, Rolling Stock, and Equipment
Assistant Administrator: Railroad.net/forums
Jeff Smith & Greg Primrose now own railroad.net!

Return to “General Discussion: Locomotives, Rolling Stock, and Equipment”