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  • Location in DL&W wreck photo...

  • Discussion relating to the Delaware, Lackawanna & Western, the Erie, and the resulting 1960 merger creating the Erie Lackawanna. Visit the Erie Lackawanna Historical Society at http://www.erielackhs.org/.
Discussion relating to the Delaware, Lackawanna & Western, the Erie, and the resulting 1960 merger creating the Erie Lackawanna. Visit the Erie Lackawanna Historical Society at http://www.erielackhs.org/.

Moderator: blockline4180

 #78596  by krieglok
 
Does anyone know about this wreck or the location? It is a photo I found in my Great Uncle`s papers after he passed. He was from Moristown, NJ. It is engine 641 and it appears to be a 4-6-0 Camelback

TJ

Image
 #79455  by henry6
 
...figure out what I could. According to Taber the 641 was #159 before renumbering in 1899 was a 2-6-0 Camelback and was scrapped in 1919. It was also a ML or main line engine that would have worked Buffalo to Scranton or Hoboken for the most part. The pic appears to be on single track and about 1900 to 1910. Will kee looking around...Oh, it was a Cooke built in 1887. But exact location is elusive so far!
 #79501  by henry6
 
...closer at the pic it looks like a single track rear ender at a grade crossing. Because of picture cut off, it could be a pusher on the hind end but more than likely not. Did your Grand Uncle work for the Lackawanna or live elsewhere than Morristown?

 #79586  by Tri-State Tom
 
henry -

Looks like somewhere on the Sussex branch to me....
 #79678  by henry6
 
.....dontcha get that feelen? O do, too!
 #79759  by ChiefTroll
 
Looks to me like the engine was running in reverse at the head of a passenger train, and derailed on the crossing. If the engine had been running forward the tender probably would not have swung away from the track like that.

It doesn't take much to derail a tender on a road crossing, and he probably wasn't moving very fast.

But I don't know where it was. It does not appear to have been serious enough to warrant an ICC investigation and report.

 #79878  by krieglok
 
My Great Uncle also spent part of his early life in Kearny, NJ. Thanks for the replys thus far.

TJ
 #79905  by henry6
 
..I'm stumped. Cheif Troll might be right, running in reverse because it didn't telescope train nor climb atop. Place if the fun part, though. Line west of Morristown to Dover Jct via Rockaway was not double tracked until '03 or '05 when westbound service was sent west at the present station site rather than through Rockaway although the brance remained single track. Sussex Branch is a good guess, too, as is the P&D. Engine was origonally #88 out on the Buffalo Division before 1899, the #159 then #641 from '99 ton '19 scrapping. So that leaves the Syrause, Utica or Ithaca branches are possiblities, too. But, because Great Uncle was from Morristown it is more likely NJ somewhere. Did he work for the railroad or just happened to have this pic? Since all the books I have do not reveal anything, newpaper archives or railroad records are the next phase and I ain't handy to any of them. Good Luck.

 #79959  by cjvrr
 
How about the Peapack-Gladstone line. It was always single track right? Did it exist then? Did the RR have turning facilities on the Peapack? To me, Sussex is more hilly than that.

Maybe a little far fetch, but the photo was most likely taken in the fall or spring, no leaves on the trees, but no snow on ground or ice in creek. People jackets aren't too thick either nor are they bundled up. The sun is behind us when looking at the photo but high in the sky judging by the shadows. So te sun is more southerly in those times of the year, so I would think we are looking in a northerly direction.

My guess is Basking Ridge. Not far from Morristown either...

Chris

 #79976  by krieglok
 
My Greatuncle would have been a teenager in the early 1920s. He didnt work for the railroad. The original print I have looks like it was from a "browniebox" type of camera. My neighbor, a local railroad historian, noticed there were no telegraph poles. It seems to him that any major route would have a pole line along side. Thanks again for the ideas.

TJ

 #80100  by gravelyfan
 
No ballast to speak of. Could it be the Chester Branch? Were there turning facilities at Chester, or would they have backed all the way to Chester Jct?

There was a turntable at Gladstone, evidence of the pit foundation walls is still visible at the east end of the parking lot closest to the river.
 #80110  by henry6
 
..this is going to be fun. The Chester Branch or even the Franklen Branch or part of the Sussex Branch. P&D, less likely if just on the lack of poles. Also, upstate NY, like Ithaca or Cincinnatus or Richfield Springs branches...even the Utica branch and the Syracuse branches are barren of poles. Pics of Denville before converting to going west on the Boonton branc is still a fair bet. There are the experts out there, we just must wait to find them!
 #83101  by henry6
 
..to report. But suggestion has been made to me that pic is on the Montrose (PA) branch near Heart Lake where excursion trains were often pulled backwards to Alford because of lack of turning facitlities. And if the engine was a "ML" engine in the early 1900s this is plausable.
More diging to be done.

 #84870  by pdman
 
There are no leaves on the trees, so I'd say it happened after November 1 and before, say, April 10. The people are not dressed for very cold weather.

The trees on the right seem to be those ubiquitious ones that like wet roots, don't grow too high, and are found in swamps or wetlands. Lots of these along the Boonton Line, Gladstone Branch (between Murray Hill and Stirling -- but the background hill rules that out), Denville to Lake Hopatcong, Netcong to Hacketstown. I'd also vote for a possibility of the Montrose Branch as well. The same kind of plant life is there as well.