Silverliner V Order Cancelled

[CComMack]

SEPTA has cancelled its contract to purchase 104 new commuter railcars from the Korean-based United Transit Systems consortium.

Inquirer coverage at http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/local/8228604.htm

[JeffK]

GAAAHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SEPTA's position seems to be, "If a job is not worth doing wrong, it's not worth doing at all".

[Umblehoon]

Given how negatively people responded in the old railroad.net forum when it was announced that UTS was going to be making the new Silverliners, I kind of expected there would be shouts of jubilation here that UTS has been given the boot.

[jrevans]

I want some DMUs in addition to the new Silverliners. That way we can run to Reading, Quakertown and Newtown.

I really don't have any opinion about who should get the Silverliner V contract. I don't know enough about the companies involved, but I hope that the SEPTA specifications are rigid enough that they get a quality car no matter who makes them.

I want Colorado RailCar DMUs though.

[Urban D Kaye]

Oh jeez, just give the contract to Lionel.

[Irish Chieftain]

I want some DMUs in addition to the new Silverliners. That way we can run to Reading, Quakertown and Newtown.

Out of which Philly terminal, though...? Reading Terminal is surrounded by "progress", there's no connector to 30th Street's lower level from the Reading lines, and it would be unlikely to impossible to get the old B&O 24th Street station back. If you can do dual-mode with a Silverliner/DMU consist, then that would be what you are looking for...(don't forget that the RDCs were and are DMUs themselves and could have been rebuilt for that purpose two decades ago)

Back on topic: Does this mean that the Silverliner V is completely off the table, or that the vendor has merely been changed and BBD may get the order again...?

[JeffK]

According to this morning's Inky, SEPTA is going to reopen bidding, so it's back to square 1, or maybe 2 since most (all?) of the same firms will be at the table.

I find it interesting that they claim to have bailed out of the UTS deal not because they felt someone else could do a better job, but because they didn't want litigation! It'll also be interesting to see how the specs are written for the next go-round, and how much additional money will be spent just getting back to where the project should have been in the first place.

Pardon my recurring cynicism, but once again I'm reminded of a 3-day-old mackerel.

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/8232149.htm

[Franklin Gowen]

Irish Chieftain:

SEPTA could negotiate with Amtrak & NS to re-install the appropriate switches at ZOO, which Amtrak agreed to remove for CR in the mid-1990s. The above plan would allow operation into either level of 30th St. Station. Pax changing between SEPTA trains at 30th's upper level is a piece of cake. Doing so via the lower level is a harder sell to potential riders, but still better than no diesel service at all. None of the other options you mentioned for termini are needed, let alone financially, politically, or physically feasible. (I'm sure you put them there for completeness' sake WRT this subject.)

Of course, SEPTA being SEPTA, the "confederacy of dunces" will try to find some way to turn that simple solution into a tangled nightmare. Which leads me back to the subject of this thread.

On topic--

I found the philly.com article posted today (Sat.) very disturbing. Our own JeffK touched upon the reason. SEPTA just took a major shortcut in order to head off a very public lawsuit. Why would they do this? Is the agency afraid of having key management personnel give sworn depositions? It looks like one might be able to say that. From the article:


" Kawasaki attorney Richard A. Sprague suggested the prospect that SEPTA officials, employees and others would be questioned prompted the agency to end the litigation.

"There are a lot of people who didn't want to be deposed," Sprague said. A SEPTA lawyer called Sprague's comment unfair. "


OK, this comment -is- coming from a lawyer representing Kawasaki, not United Transit Systems. Still, he makes a good point. I find it goes hand-in-glove with SEPTA management's all-too-common tactic of slipping away from events & inquiries which could, to put it mildly, paint the agency in something other than a favorable light. More:


" Had Kawasaki's lawsuit continued, Sprague was scheduled to depose 23 people. He would not disclose that list, but Kawasaki said it included Deon and Novak, as well as key SEPTA engineers and professionals. Kawasaki has alleged that at least one key technical official knew nothing of the specification change until after it had occurred.

SEPTA attorney Mark Gottlieb said the agency had "agreed on the deposition schedule long before this decision was made" and called Sprague's contention that the agency was avoiding the depositions an "unwarranted inference." "


I love the smell of unwarranted inferences in the morning. They smell like victory. (Cue up "Ride of the Valkyries") And there's more to make your head spin:


" "SEPTA is already in a severe budget crisis, and a protracted legal challenge would cost precious money and time," Deon said in the statement. "


Oh, really? So I guess you're doing everyone a huge favor with this suspiciously-early "roll over and play dead" tactic. How generous of you to look to the agency's fiscal responsibility, Pat. Your diligence makes me dizzy with joy. But I think you forgot to add the rest. I'll help you:

"Defending against this legal challenge would have created the possibility of shedding light on some wasteful, lazy, & ill-researched decisions on the part of SEPTA management. As a part of the problem rather than part of the solution, I could not allow this to happen. The resulting tornado of negative publicity would have worsened even further, putting undue stress upon the Board's & upper management's pledge to look good in the press while aiding the riding public as little as we can get away with.

Why can't the pro--'maybe the bid process was bogus?', anti--'science has proven that 3+2 seating is good for you!' whiners and fanatics out there just be grateful, and shut up? Haven't the rail watchdogs stirred up enough resentment among the proles? The riders can trust us. We're 'Christian men of industry'!"

Surely this "omission" was an innocent mistake. The reporters clamoring; heat of the moment, and all that.

Pat, there's a phonecall for you from 1902. George Baer wants his robber-baron cape and mask back!

The entire Silverliner V story, from the beginning to now, is more proof that SEPTA is unable to intelligently plan for the future. Now more -time- will be wasted, more -money- will be wasted, and in the end there's zero assurance that this story will end well. Hey, why bother? We're only talking about a replacement of a huge portion of the commuter rail fleet, where mistakes will have consequences for -decades- to come! Why sweat it? OK, enough sarcasm. Just one serious question left...

...is this -truly- the best that can come out of 1234 Market Street?

[JeffK]

...is this -truly- the best that can come out of 1234 Market Street?

Congratulations on a well-written and insightful commentary.

IMO SEPTA is a bit like the old song with the line that goes something like, "been down so long I don't know what up is". They've been incompetent and inbred for so long they can't see just how costly the constant screw-ups have become. They're deep in the bunker at 1234 and all they can see is that if someone from outside starts asking questions, the protective shell they've built around the whole operation could crumble. People might actually have to answer for their actions, and heaven forbid, admit to making mistakes and maybe even lose their jobs.

For at least the last 7 or 8 years I've been trying to interest someone, anyone, reporters, politicians, whoever, in trying to pry the lid off the 55-gallon drum of worms that is SEPTA, but with no success. The messes just keep getting larger and larger.

[Franklin Gowen]

Thank you, JeffK. I tend to get depressed when thinking of the agency's perennial failings. If I'm lucky, I progress from depressed to angry. Then I kick my keyboard into high gear and do my Harlan Ellison impression. SEPTA offers such a wide expanse of ingrained stupidity that it's hard to decide where to sink that first barb into the agency's hide. I may get dramatic for effect, but I'll never need to make anything up to show how lame SEPTA is -- after all, SEPTA is an inexhaustible factory of lameness!

As funny as it sounds, I studiously avoid writing about SEPTA whenever possible. Why? Time is short, and my life is busier than I'd prefer. Keeping things at arm's length protects me from getting over-committed to various worthy causes. But once I begin to care, I get really p.o.'d. Then it's hard not to get indignant; to want to rally the scorned commuters, lead a "Bonus March" straight to SEPTA HQ, and proclaim the Revolution. Sure, it's just an idle fantasy. Sadly, the motivation for it has been going on for decades; the agency's seen to that.

There's one hell of a big story implicit in my venom. If people like you and I are the only ones willing to write it, then that's the way it is. Maybe John Q. Public won't notice, let alone begin to care, until somebody writes the definitive, whistle-blowing " 'I Was A Teenaged Transit Engineer'! The SEPTA That They Never Wanted You To See!" The punch line is that I'm a partly-apathetic person trying to stir the enthusiasm of the mostly-apathetic populace. Ironic, and embarrassing.

I've stopped having anything remotely like a point about the Silverliner V bid process. Maybe I should start a new thread concerning how we need to either secede from SEPTA, or just destroy its ability to choke the region further. I don't want to write about that, but now I feel I have to. And all I wanted was a nice quiet evening at home!

[jrevans]

Can we get these new liner's in a color other than silver?

What about a blue-liner? Or a red-liner?


My powers of observation tell me that SEPTA truly is a top-heavy organization with zero capability of actually looking ahead of next week. They're just lucky right now that they managed to keep SEPTA from striking this time....

[JeffK]

Can we get these new liners in a color other than silver?

I doubt you'll ever see it unless there's a technology that will let the stainless steel have a permanent color embedded in it, kind of like Corian tile. Wraps, paint and so on need special handling but plain stainless can be cleaned mechanically without fading or peeling. The horizontal r/w/b stripe is about as much color as they'll go for, because it's comparatively easier to maintain than a full-carbody treatment.

Besides, if they chose something like Tuscan Red it might remind people of what things were like when a real railroad was running the show.

[Alcoman]

Bombardier should get the car order for Septa.

However regardless who gets the order, it should be built 100% in this Country using American made parts and labor.

They should be called "Broken Arrows" just they are called in New Jersey.

Just hire a bunch of low-lifes to paint for free-They will put multible coats of urban scraw on the side of each car using their best "artistic" abilities. :D

[Irish Chieftain]

The "Broken Arrow" syndrome was caused by ABB's rebuild IIRC. Dropping from a top speed of 105 mph to 80 mph (due to some shoddy workmanship, because the MUs are still well capable of the 105 mph) is beyond absurd and not something that should have been continually imposed upon commuters.

IIRC, the original BBD Silverliner V was supposed to be based on the M7 MU that the Long Island and Metro-North railroads are acquiring/using. Below are front and side views; note that the windows are much larger than earlier Silverliners and that the doors are at the ¼- and ¾-point locations instead of at the ends of the cars—but presumably the doors will have steps, trapdoors and a "long door" to enable automatic operation at low-platform stations, not to mention pantographs versus third-rail contact shoes. (Too bad that NJ Transit is going with their Comet Vs, otherwise this would not be a bad Arrow IV.) Just an idea of what might be...

[Matthew Mitchell]

IIRC, the original BBD Silverliner V was supposed to be based on the M7 MU that the Long Island and Metro-North railroads are acquiring/using. [snip]
... note that the windows are much larger than earlier Silverliners and that the doors are at the ¼- and ¾-point locations instead of at the ends of the cars—but presumably the doors will have steps, trapdoors and a "long door" to enable automatic operation at low-platform stations, not to mention pantographs versus third-rail contact shoes.

Correct. Bombardier did propose an M7 variant. The larger windows are to meet new FRA emergency egress regulations, while SEPTA specified quarter-point doors for faster loading and unloading. Unfortunately, among the other spec changes (some of which prompted the Kawasaki lawsuit) SEPTA required the long door only for one of the doors and not both. At least two manufacturers say they could do both doors long for low-platform use.