1982 RDC wreck details?

[trainspot]

I took this from an Amtrak train in Sept. 1982. Does anyone know the details? (car # , when, how & where wrecked?) Thanks!
http://trainspot.rrpicturearchives.net/ ... id=1504905

[jfrey40535]

That would be the remains of Budd RDC 9164, wrecked 2/2/82 in Southampton on the Newtown Branch.
Here's 9164 in better times

[dreese_us]

These are not my pics, but here is what happened.


January 2nd 1982


January 2nd 1982 was the beginning of the end of SEPTA's experiment with Rapid Transit on a railroad.
Only four months into the new operation named "HS-1", a catastrophic accident occured which claimed the life of the engineer. The accident was a result of poor visibility on the part of the truck driver, and a possible grade crossing signal which failed to illuminate because SEPTA was operating single car trains on a scarsely used rails.

Shuttle buses were subsituted for trains for a week after the accident. After service resumed, all trains were operated with two cars. A flagman was assigned to protect the Second Street Pike grade crossing until the crossing signals were repaired. Within a month, SEPTA had replaced the aged Reading Company signals with gates and new flashing lights. A little over a year later, the trains were permenantly sidelined in favor of shuttle buses.

Ex-Reading Company RDC #9164 was scrapped after the accident and investigation concluded.

http://community.webshots.com/album/17779901dMvXmQnXmD

[dreese_us]

Long story short, Septa did not run over the New Year holiday, rain caused a little rust on the rail and a single RDC was not enough to shunt the signals. Reports were the signals were activated then turned off. Tanker driver drove across the tracks in front of the train.

[trainspot]

Thank you all! I thought it might be the car in the accident but wasn't sure, as I didn't live here at the time.
I have more Newtown Line photos from a day trip in 1983, and some recent photos here:
http://trainspot.rrpicturearchives.net/ ... x?id=27175

[BuddSilverliner269]

Long story short, Septa did not run over the New Year holiday, rain caused a little rust on the rail and a single RDC was not enough to shunt the signals. Reports were the signals were activated then turned off. Tanker driver drove across the tracks in front of the train.

Not to get into an argument over this still touchy subject, but rain and rust had absolutely nothing to do with this accident. Some of the RDC's were equipped with an excitation devicethat way if they had to run as a single car train, the crossing gates would stay activated. The Other RDC's did not have that feature. Septa refused to listen to its railroad unions and employees over this matter and that the non excitation equipped units should run with other cars and not as a single unit. Well Septa thought they knew better. This car was not equipped with the excitation , and the gates did activate then go off and on occasionally until the accident happened.The tanker truck was plowed into by the train and erupted into a fire ball. The engineer was killed because he could not escape from the cab because the Broad Street Subway practice was to lock the lock and thats exactly what he did. The conductor was later made a superviser on the RRD presumably as a hush hush for what happened.. I dont mean to go on a rant about this, but you asked about the car, so I gave alil more indepth about the accidents and results.

[dreese_us]

No argument from me, if I remember correctly, Septa used a RDC with such a device during the accident investigation. Signals worked as they should using one of RDC's with the excitation device.

[Patrick Boylan]

the excitation device is news to me. It probably was around the time of this accident that I first heard about railroad problems with single cars not showing up on signals, whether wayside signals or crossing gate signals.
I was always used to single car trolleys on Red Arrow and P&W, and never knew that they had any signal problems. An explanation I got was that there are characteristics of electrically powered trains that make it easier for them to throw electric signals properly.

I wondered why they couldn't have something to give diesel trains some of the signal advantage that electric trolleys had. From what you guys say there was some such device available at the time which SEPTA elected not to use. If true it's a sad indictment against SEPTA.

[nittany4]

http://community.webshots.com/album/17779901dMvXmQnXmD

the signals are working in these photos

[SCB2525]

I wish Second Street Pike was still 4 lanes.

[limejuice]

Electric rail equipment is better at shunting track circuits because the ground or neutral side of the traction power circuit passes from the wheel to the rail, which is then bonded to the transformer at the substation. The substantial amount of current drawn by a train or trolley is enough to obliterate the buildup of rust, allowing the comparatively low current track circuit to function. Traction power aside, AC track circuits are more reliable in rusty rail conditions than DC, and coded (pulsating) track circuits are even better, which are found in cab signaled territory.

Budd, I'm going to have to disagree with you slightly. Rain and rust could very well have been a factor in this, but I don't dispute that Septa might have been guilty of not using the proper exciter-equipped units. I don't know for certain, but knowing my history and the kind of territory, I'd bet the track circuits on the Newtown line were steady DC. It's a pretty common thing for a shortline with DC crossings to approach all crossings prepared to stop if there haven't been any train movements over a 24 hour period. Clearly the truck driver was culpable, but it sounds like Septa's hands were dirty too.

Now I've never heard about this excitation equipment, except for the accounts of the accident I've read on here. Not that I'm doubting it, but does anyone have any technical info on it? Seems to me the only way to improve a trains ability to shunt a track circuit is to use an AC power source and hook it up to the wheels to zap the oxidation/rust, using the rails as a ground. I'm not sure rails are a good ground, but maybe good enough? I don't know.

[dreese_us]

Here is a report from New York Susquehanna and Western. They found that the RDC's had problems shunting signals while testing the Budd demonstrator in 1950.
Here is the link; http://books.google.com/books?id=c-8Vcw ... #PPA155,M1

Long story short, shunt shoes which are cast iron blocks held against the wheel tread with spring tension. I do not know if this is what Reading/Septa used on their railcars.

[Jtgshu]

Gee, and some folks wondered why Septa RRD unions put up such a stink with regard to the 1/2 cab compartment on the new Silverliner Vs.....

As an engineer, what happened in this wreck is truely my biggest nightmare.....what a horrible way to die for the engineer

Some guys might think that the unions when they take a stand are just flexing their muscles or just being difficult for the heck of it, but many times, there is a reason that might be lost to history for most folks, but still tender in their minds and hearts, and this is one such instance, IMO of course.

[Nick L]

Poor guy, didn't stand a chance... I wonder how one would deal with crash safety on something like this. There's not a lot of room for energy absorption in a MU I imagine. You could make the cab area (on a full cab MU) be the "crumple zone" which might save the pax but that would be curtains for the engineer if he couldn't get out in time. If you just build it super strong then all the impact energy gets sent to the pax. I saw the pictures of that Pioneer car after the DOT/FRA was through with it, not pretty...

[transit383]

Poor guy, didn't stand a chance... I wonder how one would deal with crash safety on something like this. There's not a lot of room for energy absorption in a MU I imagine. You could make the cab area (on a full cab MU) be the "crumple zone" which might save the pax but that would be curtains for the engineer if he couldn't get out in time. If you just build it super strong then all the impact energy gets sent to the pax. I saw the pictures of that Pioneer car after the DOT/FRA was through with it, not pretty...

These photos show how crash standards on commuter equipment have changed over the years, notably after the wrecks at Secaucus, NJ and Chase, MD:

Alstom Comet V Cab, fireman's side. Note the high level only door. The lack of stairwells allows for a more rigid frame and the ability to take on a stronger impact.

Alstom Comet V Cab, engineer's side. No door on the engineer's side. I believe there is also a corner post that is designed to withstand an impact so the engineer's side won't crumple on impact.

The predecessor to the Comet V, the Comet IV, was the first cab delivered without a door on the engineer's side. A doorway with a stairwell did exist on the fireman's side, though:

Comet IV, Engineer's side

Comet IV, Fireman's side

Prior to the Comet IV, the Comet III (and all previous equipment) had doors on both the engineer's and fireman's sides. Both doorways had stairwells, just like the RDCs.

Comet III Cab, Engineer's side

Comet III Cab, Fireman's side