Adios 615 & 622

Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

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glennk419
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Re: Adios 615 & 622

Post by glennk419 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:42 am

So much for preservation. I enjoyed watching them when they were on the gel trains and am surprised that at least the FA didn't find its way to Ronkonkoma.
Glenn

MACTRAXX
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Re: Adios 615 & 622

Post by MACTRAXX » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:24 am

CNJGeep wrote:
NorthPennLimited wrote:They have been gone from Wayne Junction for a week.

Did they begin their journey south?
Yes...to the Centennial Track at Roberts Yard, where they will be cut up. The sale fell through. I have no further info.

CNJ, Glenn and Everyone: Sad news concerning 615 and 622...A link to the LIRR Forum should be added here because
there are LIRR historians that post there that are involved either with the Oyster Bay Railroad Museum and Railroad
Museum of Long Island (Riverhead and Greenport) that should be at least aware that SEPTA plans now to scrap both of
these units. Does anyone have any recent pictures inside and out and are they at least roadworthy in case of perhaps
a last minute “stay of execution”? What would SEPTA want for them as a scrap price? MACTRAXX
EXPRESS TRAIN TO NEW YORK PENN STATION-NO JAMAICA ON THIS TRAIN-PLEASE STAND CLEAR OF THE CLOSING TRAIN DOORS

glennk419
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Re: Adios 615 & 622

Post by glennk419 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:34 pm

MACTRAXX wrote:
CNJGeep wrote:
NorthPennLimited wrote:They have been gone from Wayne Junction for a week.

Did they begin their journey south?
Yes...to the Centennial Track at Roberts Yard, where they will be cut up. The sale fell through. I have no further info.

CNJ, Glenn and Everyone: Sad news concerning 615 and 622...A link to the LIRR Forum should be added here because
there are LIRR historians that post there that are involved either with the Oyster Bay Railroad Museum and Railroad
Museum of Long Island (Riverhead and Greenport) that should be at least aware that SEPTA plans now to scrap both of
these units. Does anyone have any recent pictures inside and out and are they at least roadworthy in case of perhaps
a last minute “stay of execution”? What would SEPTA want for them as a scrap price? MACTRAXX
Posted to the LIRR Forum under the Power Pack 623 thread.
Glenn

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liftedjeep
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Re: Adios 615 & 622

Post by liftedjeep » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:10 pm

-Per pictures sent to me by a friend, as of this past Tues 10/14, #622 has been cut up and only the cab section remains. #615 had not been touched.
Ben
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mcgrath618
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Re: Adios 615 & 622

Post by mcgrath618 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:12 pm

This is incredibly sad. I would start a gofundme to purchase the FA 1 if it was up to me, but I think it's beyond saving at this point.

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liftedjeep
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Re: Adios 615 & 622

Post by liftedjeep » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:20 pm

mcgrath618 wrote:This is incredibly sad. I would start a gofundme to purchase the FA 1 if it was up to me, but I think it's beyond saving at this point.
A point was brought up to me that due to the years of carrying around the various liquids on the Gel Train, the frames on #s 615 & 622 were probably reduced to almost dust. A good chance why the deal to save them fell through.
Ben
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Re: Adios 615 & 622

Post by glennk419 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:22 pm

liftedjeep wrote:
mcgrath618 wrote:This is incredibly sad. I would start a gofundme to purchase the FA 1 if it was up to me, but I think it's beyond saving at this point.
A point was brought up to me that due to the years of carrying around the various liquids on the Gel Train, the frames on #s 615 & 622 were probably reduced to almost dust. A good chance why the deal to save them fell through.
Ben
Ben, there was some mention on another forum regarding the corrosiveness of the gel. The thought that it is highly corrosive was quickly debunked and I find it highly unlikely that any railroad would put something down that would damage steel rails and the rolling stock that rides on them. Given their age, I'm sure the units had some rust and deterioration but I'm guessing the purchaser took a second look at overall restoration costs. Basically these were really nothing more than cab cars at this point with prime movers and traction motors having been removed by LIRR 30 years ago.
Glenn

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Re: Adios 615 & 622

Post by NorthPennLimited » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:23 pm

Ben, there was some mention on another forum regarding the corrosiveness of the gel. The thought that it is highly corrosive was quickly debunked and I find it highly unlikely that any railroad would put something down that would damage steel rails and the rolling stock that rides on them. Given their age, I'm sure the units had some rust and deterioration but I'm guessing the purchaser took a second look at overall restoration costs. Basically these were really nothing more than cab cars at this point with prime movers and traction motors having been removed by LIRR 30 years ago.[/quote]

I've seen first hand SEPTA employees put down rock salt or calcium chloride in the vestibules of trains during inclement weather. One mineral is highly corrosive to metal, the other becomes like oil when it dissolves and passengers walk up and down the isle of the train, or across marble and tile floors of center city stations.

But I digress.......

Did the Budd car (9001) ever get donated to a museum, or is that next after the ALCO gets cut up into pieces?

deandremouse
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Re: Adios 615 & 622

Post by deandremouse » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:50 am

glennk419 wrote:
liftedjeep wrote:
mcgrath618 wrote:This is incredibly sad. I would start a gofundme to purchase the FA 1 if it was up to me, but I think it's beyond saving at this point.
A point was brought up to me that due to the years of carrying around the various liquids on the Gel Train, the frames on #s 615 & 622 were probably reduced to almost dust. A good chance why the deal to save them fell through.
Ben
Ben, there was some mention on another forum regarding the corrosiveness of the gel. The thought that it is highly corrosive was quickly debunked and I find it highly unlikely that any railroad would put something down that would damage steel rails and the rolling stock that rides on them. Given their age, I'm sure the units had some rust and deterioration but I'm guessing the purchaser took a second look at overall restoration costs. Basically these were really nothing more than cab cars at this point with prime movers and traction motors having been removed by LIRR 30 years ago.
Sand (key ingredients in sandite) and water will rust out the body sheet metal. If it sat they rusted out. If you’ve ever seen a locomotive with rust around where the sand is located or comes out you’ll notice some rust on the sheet metal. It collects gets wet and slowly rusts it out.

The steel rails on the other hand do not corrode that’s another story.
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ConstanceR46
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Re: Adios 615 & 622

Post by ConstanceR46 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:37 pm

Power pack's been saved by a private party, any more details?

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Tadman
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Re: Adios 615 & 622

Post by Tadman » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:59 pm

I would be open to hearing from a metallurgist, but the concept of salt or ice melt rusting railroad rails is not a thing. Rust usually happens when water is trapped and sits near thinner metals and can work over time. This is why the rust spots are usually toward the bottom of the body of a car or train, as water pools at the bottom and sits there and acts over time on the sheet steel.

Think about rail - it's very thick and hard, and it sits on a surface specifically designed to drain water not just off the rail, but away from the ties and ballast as well.

Ergo the line of logic that sandite may or may not be made of a substance that rots rails doesn't have much to do with anything. It's awfully hard to do anything other than surface rust on rails.
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Re: Adios 615 & 622

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:29 pm

NorthPennLimited wrote:Did the Budd car (9001) ever get donated to a museum, or is that next after the ALCO gets cut up into pieces?
9001 is reportedly on hold for Reading Technical. It was also the last active Silverliner II, serving as Overbrook's shop switcher well into 2013 (and possibly early 2014).
Since my friend continues to chain smoke nonstop, she is probably an Alco.

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Re: Adios 615 & 622

Post by mtuandrew » Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:11 pm

Tadman wrote:I would be open to hearing from a metallurgist, but the concept of salt or ice melt rusting railroad rails is not a thing. Rust usually happens when water is trapped and sits near thinner metals and can work over time. This is why the rust spots are usually toward the bottom of the body of a car or train, as water pools at the bottom and sits there and acts over time on the sheet steel.

Think about rail - it's very thick and hard, and it sits on a surface specifically designed to drain water not just off the rail, but away from the ties and ballast as well.

Ergo the line of logic that sandite may or may not be made of a substance that rots rails doesn't have much to do with anything. It's awfully hard to do anything other than surface rust on rails.
Frame rails on a locomotive, sure, but it would take a long time. Fatigue cracking is much more likely, which also increases the odds of corrosion dramatically (small fissures trap corrosive chemical mixtures like salt water and sulfur dioxide from exhaust, and they overwhelm the passivation provided by the chrome in stainless.) It also happens in railroad rails, starting with pitting & stress fractures and leading to spalling and catastrophic failures. No idea what Sandite contains, but unless there is a salt, caustic, or acidic ingredient, or it attracts moisture (is hygroscopic), it likely isn’t a major contributor to corrosion.

(Not a metallurgist, but related to one who has explained this process to me more time than I can count.)

mcgrath618
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Re: Adios 615 & 622

Post by mcgrath618 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:21 am

Any updates on these? I really hope 615 survives...

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trainspot
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SEPTA 615

Post by trainspot » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:33 pm

Diesel 80 dropped 615 at Woodbourne Yard at noon today, anyone know it’s destination? Has VGNX reporting marks, but they look old.

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