SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

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bikentransit
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Location: Bristol, PA

Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by bikentransit »

Has more bugs than a Florida greenhouse. Good luck.

R3 Passenger
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Location: Croydon Station, Pennsylvania (Northeast Corridor)

Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by R3 Passenger »

BUMP

Contractors have been out at outlying stations on the Trenton Line drilling holes for the new pass/ticket validators.
Lines Frequented: SEPTA Trenton Line, West Trenton Line, Warminster Line; NJT Northeast Corridor Amtrak Northeast Corridor (PHL-NYP).

sammy2009
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by sammy2009 »

Good to know...i think the last place i heard this going on was on the Fox Chase Line @Ryers.

JeffersonLeeEng
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SEPTA Key delayed (again) until after April 15th...

Post by JeffersonLeeEng »

http://planphilly.com/articles/2016/03/ ... are-system" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The initial launch to the fare-paying and regular riding public for the SEPTA's New Payment Technology instrument called "Key" has yet another announced delayed well within this current year, 2016. It looks like we're now waiting for word on a new launch date after yet another review meeting scheduled to be held on April 15th. IMO, we could be waiting until Labor Day or beyond for the actual start of SEPTA Key and frankly, I'm not even holding my breath for 2017...

ChemiosMurphy
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by ChemiosMurphy »

Smooth(er) rollout = worth the delay.

The system will grind to a halt if they launch a non functional Septa Key. Even if it's delayed another 6 months to a year, does it really matter?

rdgrailfan
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by rdgrailfan »

Specification issued in 2008, multiple revisions. Project released in 2011 for proceed with Xerox. This program vacuums cash needed for other projects.
Understand they ran a well planned simulated "test" on the north side, identified some issues.
They have a lot of work ahead of them, do not be surprised if regional rail systems do not go off in the first phase. Would have been a lot cheaper to go another route but....

JeffK
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by JeffK »

As a veteran of many large IT projects, I too would rather see them be right than struggle to meet an artificial schedule.

However I really wonder how much difference it would have made if SEPTA had been willing to:
(a) start with a (semi-)clean slate rather than trying to replicate almost all of its current crazy-quilt fare structure and
(b) loosen their mantra of "we must collect / the last dime / from every rider / every time"

Both of those decisions IMO have added unnecessary complexity and inefficiencies to what's already a complex and inefficient system.
Requiem for it's/its, your/you're, than/then, less/fewer. They were once such nice words with such different meanings...

rdgrailfan
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by rdgrailfan »

I agree on a clean release, like you did many projects, always clean slated unless it was a simple tweak to an established program then we borrowed what would work. something or someone set an unrealistic series of goals.
Septa can be a source for "DILBERT" material.

ExCon90
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by ExCon90 »

I agree with JeffK; the focus on spending whatever it takes to collect the last dime--as well as continuing to charge for transfers while doing away with transfers--is driving the whole thing. I'm still shaking my head at the thought of turnstiles at the Center City stations.

JeffK
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by JeffK »

I've had the opportunity to talk with about half a dozen SEPTA planners. Although admittedly none are directly involved with NPT they're all very familiar with the issues. Every one of them said neither they nor any of their colleagues were willing to consider any fundamental revamp, whether it be the elimination of transfers, distance-based fares, or (horror of horrors) POP.

When I've probed deeper it appears that the "last dime" mentality underlies that paralysis: they know the current mish-mosh is distorted and inefficient, but they can track every fare stream. Two of the the planners expressed real concern that any substantive change might make it more difficult to follow the dollars. That's understandable on the surface but - at least in my semi-amateur judgement - the current system is so contorted that SEPTA can't justify a bunker mentality about the decision to re-create it electronically.
Requiem for it's/its, your/you're, than/then, less/fewer. They were once such nice words with such different meanings...

MACTRAXX
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by MACTRAXX »

Everyone: BUMP again - one month later...

I noticed from a news report that SEPTA will offer 10,000 Key cards for use on transit routes beginning in June...

The question I have is will SEPTA offer any fare incentives to any riders that will be taking part in this test program?

Let me add this observation: Why would any rider take part in this test and give up the current system of unlimited
use passes for a system with ride caps and other limitations on use?

Anyone that must use Regional Rail will have to stay with the current pass system anyway since the Key will not be
useable on those trains. Is there a plan to limit RRD rides with a "cap" similar to Key use on transit vehicles?

If I was commuting I would buy the current pass types as long as they remain available.
Giving up the current pass privileges for a new system with added restrictions on use is going to be tough...

MACTRAXX
EXPRESS TRAIN TO NEW YORK PENN STATION-NO JAMAICA ON THIS TRAIN-PLEASE STAND CLEAR OF THE CLOSING TRAIN DOORS

R3 Passenger
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by R3 Passenger »

MACTRAXX wrote: The question I have is will SEPTA offer any fare incentives to any riders that will be taking part in this test program?
Other than bragging rights, it is very likely not.

[quote}Let me add this observation: Why would any rider take part in this test and give up the current system of unlimited
use passes for a system with ride caps and other limitations on use?[/quote]
I would not be surprised if anybody other than people who actually follow SEPTA closely (like us) don't even know about the 240/56 ride limit.
Anyone that must use Regional Rail will have to stay with the current pass system anyway since the Key will not be
useable on those trains. Is there a plan to limit RRD rides with a "cap" similar to Key use on transit vehicles?
Yes. See Page 33 of this document. From what I understand, one ride on the Trailpass can be used for RR, Bus, Trolley, Subway, NHSL. So, riding the El from 30th Street to 69th Street and transferring to the NHSL to Norristown effectively costs more (2 rides) than taking the Norriswtown line from 30th Street to Norristown.

As long as SEPTA exists in its current form, they are going to do everything they can to nickel and dime their passengers. What I am more interested to know is if a card can hold both passes and a stored value.
Lines Frequented: SEPTA Trenton Line, West Trenton Line, Warminster Line; NJT Northeast Corridor Amtrak Northeast Corridor (PHL-NYP).

zebrasepta
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by zebrasepta »

SEPTA is gonna start testing out the system starting on June 13th calling it the "SEPTA KEY EARLY ADOPTERS PROGRAM"
Beginning Monday, June 13, 2016, up to 10,000 Transit riders will be able to get a new SEPTA Key Card and purchase either a Weekly or Monthly TransPass.
http://www.septa.org/key/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JeffK
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Location: Western suburbs

Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by JeffK »

R3 Passenger wrote:From what I understand, one ride on the Trailpass can be used for RR, Bus, Trolley, Subway, NHSL. So, riding the El from 30th Street to 69th Street and transferring to the NHSL to Norristown effectively costs more (2 rides) than taking the Norristown line from 30th Street to Norristown.
I'm not 100% sure either, but I remember a similar point being made at one meeting and the response was that a connecting trip would be interpreted as a transfer rather than two separate boardings. The cost would still be a single base fare plus a $1 transfer charge rather than two base fares.

What's abundantly obscure is whether a multi-vehicle trip will count against the ride cap as a single ride, or as one ride per vehicle. If it's the latter I can see serious problems for some riders.
As long as SEPTA exists in its current form, they are going to do everything they can to nickel and dime their passengers.
Amen to that.
Requiem for it's/its, your/you're, than/then, less/fewer. They were once such nice words with such different meanings...

kiha40
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by kiha40 »

R3 Passenger wrote:What's abundantly obscure is whether a multi-vehicle trip will count against the ride cap as a single ride, or as one ride per vehicle. If it's the latter I can see serious problems for some riders.
Wouldn't the Public Utility Commission have some regulatory authority over this?

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