SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

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JeffK
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Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:05 pm
Location: Western suburbs

Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by JeffK »

Those are the fees for lost cards, but I still can't get any information about replacing expired cards. Also in a rational world there shouldn't be a charge for replacing a card with a bad chip since that's a defect rather than a loss. But this is SEPTA, of course.

I assume a different technology is used but this doesn't seem to be a problem with DC's SmarTrip cards. Among other things the plastic is much more substantial which should reduce stress breakage. It's anecdotal, but family members who live there have been using the same Metro card for years. They said they've heard of problems but they were generally software- or account-related, not a problem with the cards themselves.
Requiem for it's/its, your/you're, than/then, less/fewer. They were once such nice words with such different meanings...

MACTRAXX
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Location: Islandia,Long Island,NY

Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by MACTRAXX »

Ryan: Thank you for the information on the $3.75 intermediate fare being charged to riders going past
their zone the same as legacy pass holders are charged. With the Key will Zone 3 pass riders have the
same Anywhere privileges off-peak on weekdays? Will Zone 1 passes be valid at any station within the
City of Philadelphia off peak weekdays instead of having to get a Zone 2 or 3 pass?

If SEPTA were to charge either the Zone NJ $9.25 or $10 fare for riders that fail to tap in or out that use
either the Trenton or West Trenton Line there would likely be many complaints. The $3.75 intermediate
fare not only makes more sense - it is a fair way to collect any kind of penalty since it would be the same
as the current extension of ride charge - a flat extra fee.

MACTRAXX
EXPRESS TRAIN TO NEW YORK PENN STATION-NO JAMAICA ON THIS TRAIN-PLEASE STAND CLEAR OF THE CLOSING TRAIN DOORS

MichaelBug
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Location: Collegeville, PA

Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by MichaelBug »

How would the $3.75 extension of journey extra fare be charged, if the passenger has a valid TrailPass loaded on his/her Key Card, but has insufficient funds in the Travel Wallet?

ryan92084
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:52 am

Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by ryan92084 »

JeffK wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:44 pm
Those are the fees for lost cards, but I still can't get any information about replacing expired cards . Also in a rational world there shouldn't be a charge for replacing a card with a bad chip since that's a defect rather than a loss. But this is SEPTA, of course.
snip...
At least for standard key expired cards are treated the same as lost/damaged http://www.septa.org/key/register.html but seniors are special so I guess we'll find out whenever they start getting the renewal extension letters. Right or wrong chips going bad are considered user error. I agree on the plastic seeming to be poor with the build quality being more akin to a giftcard/ one of the more flexible credit cards than a license. According to the site there are supposed to be Personalized versions at some point but beyond what is on the site( just being a dark blue with your name on it) I don't have any other information on build quality.
MACTRAXX wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:38 pm
Ryan: Thank you for the information on the $3.75 intermediate fare being charged to riders going past
their zone the same as legacy pass holders are charged. With the Key will Zone 3 pass riders have the
same Anywhere privileges off-peak on weekdays? Will Zone 1 passes be valid at any station within the
City of Philadelphia off peak weekdays instead of having to get a Zone 2 or 3 pass?
snip...
Besides the # of ride limitations and transpasses no longer "temporarily" working to the airport afaik all the special rules are the same.
MichaelBug wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:32 pm
How would the $3.75 extension of journey extra fare be charged, if the passenger has a valid TrailPass loaded on his/her Key Card, but has insufficient funds in the Travel Wallet?
The card should go to a negative balance which would lock the card from being reloaded with any pass until rectified. Since tapping on/off hasn't done anything until now I don't know if a current valid monthly key with a negative balance has any other repercussions

rcthompson04
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by rcthompson04 »

Suburban Tap/Swipe Out starts February 5, 2020:

http://septa.org/key/updates/tap-to-exit-suburban.html
Starting Wednesday, February 5, 2020, all customers with SEPTA Key Cards and legacy Passes must Tap or Swipe to EXIT when using the designated turnstiles in Section B at Suburban Station. This fare procedure will be in effect Monday-Friday 6:00 a.m. - 8:00 p.m.

Floor decals will identify the turnstiles set for Tap/Swipe to EXIT.

TAP to EXIT applies to all Key Cards including Senior Citizen as well as Quick Trips for customers traveling from the Airport towards Center City.

Customers with paper Passes can swipe at any turnstile to exit. Riders with paper tickets and cash fare receipts must exit at the turnstiles with a SEPTA Key Ambassador.

jamesinclair
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by jamesinclair »

Spent some time at Trenton. Zero validators and zero references to Key on any sign. Looks the same as it did 5 years ago.

Also, as someone who was confused pointed out, there is zero indication that the NJT machines sell Septa tickets. I guess youre just supposed to know? They were running around trying to find a SEPTA machine before the train left.

rcthompson04
Posts: 440
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:32 am

Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by rcthompson04 »

Tap-out/Swipe-out at Section B of Suburban was going smoothly this morning at 720. Funneling people based on Key card/pass/ticket status seemed to be helping things a lot.

I will see how my colleagues who come in later handle it.

Patrick Boylan
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by Patrick Boylan »

The return of the unreturned $4.95. For those of you who tuned in late, I had posted my problems a year ago, finally successful, to get the key registration fee on another card.
Through the magic of not being able to put traveling companions on 1 key card I bought another travel wallet one, registered it, waited about 30 days and sent 3 https://www.septakey.org/info/contact-us messages once a week or so. The 1st 2 got automated "we'll reply in 48 hours" replies. I also sent a message http://www.septa.org/cs/contact/ just in case there are no humans at the key contact place.
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2020 10:38 AM
To: SEPTA Key Support <SEPTAKeySupport@septakey.org>
Subject: SEPTA Key Inquiry

This is my 3rd message to you. I have not gotten any reply from the other 2. When will you credit the $4.95 registration fee for my card #### which I registered less than 30 days after I bought it?
I got these replies pretty quickly
From: SEPTA Key Support <SEPTAKeySupport@septakey.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2020 10:39 AM
Subject: RE: SEPTA Key Inquiry

Good morning
Please give us a call at 855-56-SEPTA to discuss your issue.
Gentle readers may remember replying "phone us" to an online inquiry is not the way I like my responses
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2020 10:42 AM
To: SEPTA Key Support <SEPTAKeySupport@septakey.org>
Subject: Re: SEPTA Key Inquiry
your phone is busy. Why do I need to phone you? What information you still need.
From: SEPTA Key Support <SEPTAKeySupport@septakey.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2020 10:45 AM
Subject: RE: SEPTA Key Inquiry

Good morning

The $4.95 refund was resolved on 1/6/20 to go into your travel wallet. We were giving you the number to the call center to get more details.

Thank you SA
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2020 10:51 AM
To: SEPTA Key Support <SEPTAKeySupport@septakey.org>
Subject: Re: SEPTA Key Inquiry

then give me those details. The $4.95 does not show online. Are you saying that it's on the card, and will be available when I travel even though it doesn't show in my account online?
I've attached a screenshot that shows only the $1 I had first put on the card and no trips

ryan92084
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:52 am

Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by ryan92084 »

Another "fun" thing you can do while you aren't required to tap out at your destination is take a key loaded with an independence pass to Trenton without getting dinged the $5 each way.

Head-end View
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Location: The second row on a SEPTA Silverliner V

Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by Head-end View »

Okay try this. Let's say you're at a Center City Station with an Independence Pass loaded on your Key. You tap in and go to the platform. Then you have a change in plans and decide not to take the trip. Go back to the concourse and tap-out. First, will the system let you tap out at the same station where you just tapped in five minutes before? And second, will it record that you took one of the ten rides now only allowed on the I-Pass?

andrewjw
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by andrewjw »

Head-end View wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:15 pm
Okay try this. Let's say you're at a Center City Station with an Independence Pass loaded on your Key. You tap in and go to the platform. Then you have a change in plans and decide not to take the trip. Go back to the concourse and tap-out. First, will the system let you tap out at the same station where you just tapped in five minutes before? And second, will it record that you took one of the ten rides now only allowed on the I-Pass?
No idea, but for comparison you would be charged a penalty fare for this in San Francisco (BART), DC (Metro), or London (Tube).

andrewjw
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by andrewjw »

ryan92084 wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:28 am
Another "fun" thing you can do while you aren't required to tap out at your destination is take a key loaded with an independence pass to Trenton without getting dinged the $5 each way.
There's plenty of time between Levittown and Trenton for a conductor to check tickets manually, and trains are usually not SRO at the last stop. This form of evasion seems easy to monitor if it becomes a serious issue. And regardless - isn't monitoring this the exact kind of loophole-chasing, penny-wise pound-foolish behavior we want SEPTA to move away from?

ryan92084
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:52 am

Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by ryan92084 »

andrewjw wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:12 pm

There's plenty of time between Levittown and Trenton for a conductor to check tickets manually, and trains are usually not SRO at the last stop. This form of evasion seems easy to monitor if it becomes a serious issue. And regardless - isn't monitoring this the exact kind of loophole-chasing, penny-wise pound-foolish behavior we want SEPTA to move away from?
They could but they don't. I've been told by a few key users that they've been using the key independence pass just fine and were surprised when I informed them they could be on the line for $10 if caught. It'll likely change after the travel wallet goes live but currently all the conductors seem to just be assuming that if you got on with a key you have the correct trailpass. Either that or the independence pass rules just aren't known/being enforced again.

I don't see septa moving away from that sort of system at all. If anything the key just makes it easier to collect.

I'm not sure how true the sentiment that SEPTA is "penny-wise pound-foolish" for the regional rail fare collections is. There is a very good reason all the ambassador's stuck around to collect fares during the center city evening rush after the Silverliner's V's repairs were finished, they figured out the extent of people fare dodging (iirc collections were up 30% during the repairs but don't quote me on that).

rcthompson04
Posts: 440
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:32 am

Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by rcthompson04 »

ryan92084 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:50 am
andrewjw wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:12 pm

There's plenty of time between Levittown and Trenton for a conductor to check tickets manually, and trains are usually not SRO at the last stop. This form of evasion seems easy to monitor if it becomes a serious issue. And regardless - isn't monitoring this the exact kind of loophole-chasing, penny-wise pound-foolish behavior we want SEPTA to move away from?
They could but they don't. I've been told by a few key users that they've been using the key independence pass just fine and were surprised when I informed them they could be on the line for $10 if caught. It'll likely change after the travel wallet goes live but currently all the conductors seem to just be assuming that if you got on with a key you have the correct trailpass. Either that or the independence pass rules just aren't known/being enforced again.

I don't see septa moving away from that sort of system at all. If anything the key just makes it easier to collect.

I'm not sure how true the sentiment that SEPTA is "penny-wise pound-foolish" for the regional rail fare collections is. There is a very good reason all the ambassador's stuck around to collect fares during the center city evening rush after the Silverliner's V's repairs were finished, they figured out the extent of people fare dodging (iirc collections were up 30% during the repairs but don't quote me on that).
I suspect it is the Independence Pass rules aren’t being enforced well due to rules not being known.

Passes are being checked on the readers. I have overheard enforcement on express trains regarding zone passes not being sufficient for where that particular train goes.

If I had to guess, fare collection is up on the more crowded trains. It used to be possible for people to board a crowded rush hour trains and keep tickets as it was impossible to collect them. Tap-in / tap-out cleans up that issue especially in the evening.

andrewjw
Posts: 471
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:48 am

Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by andrewjw »

The penny-wise pound-foolish comment was with regards to trying to preserve every aspect of the paper fare system on the Key instead of building a fare schedule that fits the medium better. For instance, the current proposal to charge the cash fare to conctactless bank card riders.

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