SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

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mcgrath618
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by mcgrath618 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:08 am

SEPTA is apparently aware of the problem and "looking into it."

JeffersonLeeEng
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by JeffersonLeeEng » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:34 am

mcgrath618 wrote:SEPTA is apparently aware of the problem and "looking into it."
Rote response is very rote. :-/

JeffK
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by JeffK » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:04 pm

Patrick Boylan wrote:Are you talking about the turnstiles and tap readers? If so I sure agree they should also display balances on the turnstiles and bus and trolley tap readers.
Which is something that DC Metro's clunky old faregates have done for years.
Requiem for it's/its, your/you're, than/then, less/fewer. They were once such nice words with such different meanings...

rcthompson04
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by rcthompson04 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:00 pm

Patrick Boylan wrote:I think I was able to see my balance on a vending machine. Are you talking about the turnstiles and tap readers? If so I sure agree they should also display balances on the turnstiles and bus and trolley tap readers.
Is this the point of the machines placed in Suburban Station that have never been activated?

ExCon90
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by ExCon90 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:31 pm

I believe they do that in New York, but I think it tells us something that the SEPTA planners apparently didn't think of that. Planners are supposed to think of things like that--AAAARRGH!!!

MACTRAXX
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by MACTRAXX » Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:12 am

EC90: Metrocards show the date that Unlimiteds are good until on the farebox and pay-per-ride
cards show that your fare (currently $2.75) has been paid. Readers in every station help keep
note of the time remaining or monetary balance respectively on Metrocards. Each MVM has a
"Get Card Status" feature that also will display a Metrocard time limit/type or current value.

Remember the Legacy 10 ride PATCO magnetic back tickets? They would show on the turnstiles
upon entry and exit the rides remaining. Round trip and one way tickets would show 1/0 or 0 as
they were used. The turnstile would then capture the ticket upon exit of its last ride or use.

I used this example to show that the technology to help riders easily keep track of their Key card
value or use is definitely available. Why should it be hard to check balances or time remaining on
a pass that is currently valid no matter what type it is? MACTRAXX
EXPRESS TRAIN TO NEW YORK PENN STATION-NO JAMAICA ON THIS TRAIN-PLEASE STAND CLEAR OF THE CLOSING TRAIN DOORS

JeffK
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by JeffK » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:05 am

MACTRAXX wrote:Why should it be hard to check balances or time remaining on a pass that is currently valid no matter what type it is? MACTRAXX
At the risk of being my usual snarky self ... for the same reason the Key is brimming with OOPses: the clowns who put it together never bothered to think more than 2 cm in front of themselves. They were so concerned about papering over whatever the problems of the moment were that they overlooked everything from suburban transit zones to token use by social-service agencies.

FWIW I understand they've finally created different flavors of QuickTrip cards to address the problems those agencies face in the absence of tokens. Supposedly the new cards allow for bulk purchases, transfers and/or use outside of a 24-hour window - options that SHOULD have been in place for everybody on day one - but so far it looks like they won't be sold to the general public. Naturally....
Requiem for it's/its, your/you're, than/then, less/fewer. They were once such nice words with such different meanings...

rcthompson04
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by rcthompson04 » Fri May 03, 2019 5:52 am

I have used the All Day Independence Pass for the morning and evening commute because I did not buy a pass this month (only going to Center City 11 times this month). It worked fine and was quite easy to load based on the new website. Doing it again today.

ExCon90
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by ExCon90 » Sat May 04, 2019 2:30 pm

According to the May issue of Cinders,the newsletter of the Philadelphia Chapter NRHS, "SEPTA reportedly lost $1.4 million in annual revenue from the discontinuance of senior fares on Regional Rail."
All because they can't figure out how to collect it--seems like ineptitude doesn't come cheap.

JeffK
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by JeffK » Sat May 04, 2019 5:41 pm

ExCon90 wrote:According to the May issue of Cinders,the newsletter of the Philadelphia Chapter NRHS, "SEPTA reportedly lost $1.4 million in annual revenue from the discontinuance of senior fares on Regional Rail."
I wonder how much they've also lost from eliminating suburban transit zones. AFAIK it "only" affected the NHSL plus the 12X and 150 bus lines, but that's still a lot of riders. Also the 12X and 150 had up to three extra zones so that's a maximum loss of $1.50 per trip. All because it never dawned on anyone that there's no rational way to do exit validations on a bus or trolley.

The ever-present cynic in me says that the combined losses could be part of the reason for eliminating paper transfers and for not installing TVMs at RRD stations.
Seems like ineptitude doesn't come cheap.
Intelligence can be cheap, stupidity has a much higher price.
Requiem for it's/its, your/you're, than/then, less/fewer. They were once such nice words with such different meanings...

JimBoylan
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by JimBoylan » Sun May 05, 2019 8:17 am

Rtes. 1, 14, 20, 22, 44, 45, 50, 52, 55, 58, 77, and L were all City Division lines that run into the counties and had Zone Fares. Many of the 90 series routes in Montgomery County also had Zone Fares.

MACTRAXX
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by MACTRAXX » Mon May 06, 2019 5:57 pm

JB: Yes-all those buses ran to points outside the City of Philadelphia and once had zone fares.

One exception is Route #77 - which runs between City points (Chestnut Hill to NE Philadelphia
namely Roosevelt Mall) via Jenkintown and Glenside. This route never had zone fares. Another
note I will add about is that the #77 bus serves five RRD stations: CHW, Wyndmoor, GNS, JKT
and Ryers on the course of the run.

Over time SEPTA eliminated zones on many long routes making it easier for both operators and
riders. The best rail examples are the NHSL were once (3) and #101 (2) zones.

Some of the 90 series routes once had multiple zones and over time zones were combined or
outright eliminated until they all became flat rate routes. Some of these changes date from
long before the Key was introduced.

The #124 and #125 bus routes once had the highest zone fares on SEPTA.
Making what actually is an express bus a flat rate made it a bargain by SEPTA standards.

MACTRAXX
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JimBoylan
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by JimBoylan » Mon May 06, 2019 9:15 pm

MACTRAXX wrote:JB: Yes-all those buses ran to points outside the City of Philadelphia and once had zone fares.
One exception is Route #77 - which runs between City points (Chestnut Hill to NE Philadelphia
namely Roosevelt Mall) via Jenkintown and Glenside. This route never had zone fares. Another
note I will add about is that the #77 bus serves five RRD stations: CHW, Wyndmoor, GNS, JKT
and Ryers on the course of the run.
Rte. 77 is an extension of Rte. X Chestnut Hill - Glenside, which did have a Suburban Zone long ago.
When Rte. 78 Darby - Lansdowne was extended to 52 - Baltimore, it kept its Suburban Zone and gained a City Zone. When Rte. 46 was rerouted to cover that Suburban portion, it got a Suburban Zone until that portion was abandoned with no replacement.
I don't know if Rte. 108 had both a Suburban and a City Zone when it was created by combining Red Arrow Rte. J with PTC Rte. U.
Rtes. 24, 28, 37, and 88 also had Suburban Zones.
Rtes. 11, 13, 21, 30, 42, 65, and 70 did not.

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ChesterValley
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by ChesterValley » Tue May 07, 2019 6:51 am

How could SEPTA possibly make the key more painful? More ads of course!

https://www.phillymag.com/news/2019/05/ ... rtisement/
The Scheduled 11:30 R5 Local to Malvern Next To Arrive on track 4 Section B

JeffK
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Post by JeffK » Tue May 07, 2019 3:20 pm

MACTRAXX wrote:Over time SEPTA eliminated zones on many long routes making it easier for both operators and riders. The best rail examples are the NHSL were once (3) and #101 (2) zones.

Zone 1 on the NHSL was "eliminated" by folding it into Zone 2 so all trips, even between two adjacent stations, effectively had a zone fare. I pressed the issue with 1234 and was told that they considered the line to be a "premium" route which justified charging extra. When the policy first went into effect it caused a lot of ill will among former Zone 1 passengers - IIRC during the first couple of weeks there were a few incidents that required SEPTA police intervention :(
The #124 and #125 bus routes once had the highest zone fares on SEPTA. Making what actually is an express bus a flat rate made it a bargain by SEPTA standards.
Bizarrely, an earlier (2013?) tariff actually proposed something like the NHSL upcharge by imposing the full four-zone fare for all trips on the 124/125 and three zones on the 123 regardless of length (!). Aside from the inequity of a $4 cost for local travel, it could have created a mess in places where those routes duplicate others still charging standard fares. Passengers in those overlap areas would have found themselves paying significantly different amounts for identical service solely based on which bus they boarded.

While most riders would have become aware of the difference, its "gotcha" aspects still might have caused problems for those routes' operators. Fortunately the issue became moot: after some prodding by local officials in Upper Merion and Delco, SEPTA revised the tariff to maintain its old fare structure for local service.
Requiem for it's/its, your/you're, than/then, less/fewer. They were once such nice words with such different meanings...

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