SEPTA to run the Keystones?

[tgolanos]

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Another possibility would be for Pennsylvania to contract with another rail operator, such as SEPTA or a private firm like Herzog Transit Services Inc., of St. Joseph, Mo., to run the Keystone trains

While I think this would be highly unlikely given SEPTA's financial woes and how hostile the State seems to be towards SEPTA/The Delaware Valley, it's an interesting development that they may be willing to consider SEPTA running the Keystone route. Personally, I think it would be a boon if SEPTA began running the Keystones at least to Lancaster.

[amtrakhogger]

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/2 ... rvice.html

Another possibility would be for Pennsylvania to contract with another rail operator, such as SEPTA or a private firm like Herzog Transit Services Inc., of St. Joseph, Mo., to run the Keystone trains

While I think this would be highly unlikely given SEPTA's financial woes and how hostile the State seems to be towards SEPTA/The Delaware Valley, it's an interesting development that they may be willing to consider SEPTA running the Keystone route. Personally, I think it would be a boon if SEPTA began running the Keystones at least to Lancaster.

This goes back some years. When I worked at Septa, the big thing (from management) was that Amtrak was going to give up Harrisburg-Philly service at some point (except 40/41 and 42/43,) and Septa was to assume operating the Keystone trains. Supposedly, this was the reason behind the purchase of the push-pull fleet. Obviously, it never happened.

[Matthew Mitchell]

Actually, the concept of having SEPTA operate the service under contract is something DVARP suggested. SEPTA's unit costs are lower than Amtrak's, their overhead is lower (Amtrak is trying to use profits from state-supported services to support the national network), and there are potential efficiencies in integrating the operations (plus benefits for passengers).

As for the push-pulls, Hogger's source is incorrect. They were acquired as a cheap, off-shelf, means of maintaining capacity while the Silverliner fleet underwent major overhauls. Further, SEPTA got a very good deal on them thanks to Canadian export incentives.

[bikentransit]

Riding a Silverliner to Harrisburg with no bathrooms? Please, don't torture us!

[25Hz]

IF... and that's a huge if... SEPTA were to ever do this, it would need to be re-organized so the RRD was not part of SEPTA. Othrwise it just isn't going to work for many reasons. Bathrooms being one.

[60 Car]

Riding a Silverliner to Harrisburg with no bathrooms? Please, don't torture us!

You people must have peanut sized bladders...

I know people who rode SLV's to Harrisburg on the test runs and no one had to make a "pit stop".

Didn't your mother tell you to go before you leave?

[BuddSilverliner269]

Actually, the concept of having SEPTA operate the service under contract is something DVARP suggested. SEPTA's unit costs are lower than Amtrak's, their overhead is lower (Amtrak is trying to use profits from state-supported services to support the national network), and there are potential efficiencies in integrating the operations (plus benefits for passengers).

As for the push-pulls, Hogger's source is incorrect. They were acquired as a cheap, off-shelf, means of maintaining capacity while the Silverliner fleet underwent major overhauls. Further, SEPTA got a very good deal on them thanks to Canadian export incentives.

Figures dvarp would persue a stupid idea as this. Septa doesn't even have the equipment or the manpower to even consider this move and the lack of bathrooms or thru service will be another deterrent. Also there's a requirement that a trip longer then X amount of miles must have restroom facilities. Last time I checked, even if septa thought about putting restrooms on the Bombers, wasn't the rehabbed cab car bathroom done away with? Septa can't even get there own funding situation in hand and you want them to try and take something else on??? Please!!!!

[bikentransit]

Its not just the lack of bathrooms, but many of my friends who are seniors CAN'T HOLD IT. Its called a medical condition.
Anyway, having Septa run Keystone trains would be like going from a Cadillac to a Yugo. Their trains are loud and uncomfortable compared to the amenities of Amtrak's coaches. I thought Septa wasn't allowed to operate outside of the region anyway. Then again, anything that would take the railroad away from septa would be a good thing.

[ex Budd man]

The Bombers would be the equipment of choice for these runs. Each cab car has a toilet (some have the innards removed), they sit in the yards all day long, and crews lay over during the middle of the day. Sounds doable to me. We already loan them to Amtrak for the holiday rush.

[Matthew Mitchell]

Nobody said anything about Silverliners on the Harrisburg service (except Ed Tennyson, who actually had the Silverliner IIIs designed with rest rooms and left-hand operation for just that purpose).

Contracting for operations does not mean contracting for equipment. Equipment can be leased or purchased from Amtrak or other suppliers in the short run, until an add-on order can be placed with the Silverliner VI contract (or someone else's equipment acquisition[*]) for cars to be dedicated to the Keystone.

And as for the funding situation, we're talking about a contract operation just like SEPTA runs for the state of Delaware (or NJT runs for Metro-North west of the Hudson), where the contracting party covers the projected operating deficit, not an unfunded mandate. Done right, it has the potential to save SEPTA some costs, such as by spreading fixed costs over a larger operation, and gaining some (small) scheduling efficiencies.

*--to tie this in with another thread, that's part of why SEPTA got a particularly good deal on the Bombardier cars: it was an incremental order when the production line was already running for NJT and Metro-North

[Tritransit Area]

From what I've heard, SEPTA is able to run rail service throughout the state of PA, but buses are limited to to 5 county area.

I'd love the ability to use my Trailpass to go to Harrisburg and Lancaster on weekends!

On the rehabbed cab car, the bathroom remains! On Facebook, I saw a photo of that car when it was displayed at Fern Rock for the Rail Roadeo, and the bathroom is still there - clean (!) while it appears to be ready for service! Regardless, it would be a downgrade to have less comfortable seats while losing direct service to New York, though.

Regional Rail could probably stand to be its own organization so that we can accommodate other state wide rail needs outside of the 5 county area without having to strain SEPTA's budget. There are so many needs with the railroad, and funding to upgrade substations, stations, and get cars to replace the just-about-40 year old workhorses of the fleet shouldn't have to compete with bus purchases and overhauls.

[gprimr1]

Riding a Silverliner to Harrisburg with no bathrooms? Please, don't torture us!

You people must have peanut sized bladders...

I know people who rode SLV's to Harrisburg on the test runs and no one had to make a "pit stop".

Didn't your mother tell you to go before you leave?

Sometimes you gotta go.

I agree though, without bathrooms it would be a nightmare. Remember, people choose the way they go. A regular person isn't going to choose to ride on a bathroomless train when he/she could choose a car or a bus. You want to make the experience something people will choose.

[Clearfield]

In today's world of bureaucratic BS, there's no way to put this together (an alternate contractor) in less than 2 months.

They Keystones themselves are used by a huge number of State workers to get to work. I think they're safe.

The Pennsylvanian (leg from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh) is in serious jeopardy just as it was this winter.

As far as transportation agencies go, only NASA has a higher cost structure than Amtrak.

[25Hz]

In today's world of bureaucratic BS, there's no way to put this together (an alternate contractor) in less than 2 months.

They Keystones themselves are used by a huge number of State workers to get to work. I think they're safe.

The Pennsylvanian (leg from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh) is in serious jeopardy just as it was this winter.

As far as transportation agencies go, only NASA has a higher cost structure than Amtrak.

Amtrak is a public service entity, its purpose is not to make profit, but to serve the public. Efficiencies that would bring costs down mostly include state of good repair issues with the physical plant and electrical supply system issues that cause both lost revenue and costly overtime and constant half measure repairs. The answer is to overhaul the entire physical plant and electrical power supply system. Fiddling with train frequenciesand onboard crew and station staff numbers is not the answer.

[Quinn]

Fiddling with train frequenciesand onboard crew and station staff numbers is not the answer.

Adjusting staff levels to meet needs is addressing efficiency. "Fiddling" is not for fun.