ALP-45DP's - Usage and Delivery

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Rail Boy
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ALP-45DP's - Usage and Delivery

Post by Rail Boy » Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:15 am

My understanding is that the original intentions for these engines was for the ARC service? Now what does NJT do with them? You can extend existing trains into diesel only territory (Hackettstown, WORMS), and you could run off peak Raritan Service into New York, but you still can't fit more than maybe one more rush-hour train into the tubes without making scarifies els-ware. What else can NJ Transit do productive with them?

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cruiser939
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Re: ALP-45DP's - What will they be used for?

Post by cruiser939 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:00 am

Rail Boy wrote:My understanding is that the original intentions for these engines was for the ARC service? Now what does NJT do with them? You can extend existing trains into diesel only territory (Hackettstown, WORMS), and you could run off peak Raritan Service into New York, but you still can't fit more than maybe one more rush-hour train into the tubes without making scarifies els-ware. What else can NJ Transit do productive with them?
What does NJT do with them... run trains I would imagine. You can't extend any existing service from PSNY until the FDNY certifies the dual modes for the tunnels and Amtrak certifies them for the NEC. At that time, you can extend M&E and MSU trains can go all the way to Hackettstown and Long Branch trains can get extended to Bay Head. As for the RVL, you can't fit any more rush hour trains through the tunnels, that's kinda what "at-capacity" means. In fact, that's exactly what "at-capacity" means.

"Dual modes, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Uh-huh"
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Jtgshu
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Re: ALP-45DP's - What will they be used for?

Post by Jtgshu » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:59 pm

I would hope that NJT would change the schedule and cancel at least two existing trains during rush hours and add at least 2 RVL trains into NYP, once the DMs are certified and have proven themselves....kinda like Gladstone midtown direct service...

Dual mode, once seat service into NY was one of the key "selling points" for the RVL folks of the Aldene Plan waaaaaaaay back in the 60s. Now that the locos are actually being built, wouldn't it be nice for this promise to come true to these folks who were first promised it a half century ago?

Just a thought.....
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Re: ALP-45DP's - What will they be used for?

Post by morris&essex4ever » Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:28 pm

But honestly, are 36 dual modes necessary?
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Re: ALP-45DP's - What will they be used for?

Post by HBLR » Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:46 pm

With ridership growing and not really slowing, possible expansion to formerly served lines, and added flexibility, I ask what wont they do with them. As an electrical guy I can't wait to see these in action, pretty exciting.
No I'm not a railroad professional, but that doesn't mean I can't provide first hand observational comments.

cruiser939
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Re: ALP-45DP's - What will they be used for?

Post by cruiser939 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:57 pm

Jtgshu wrote:I would hope that NJT would change the schedule and cancel at least two existing trains during rush hours and add at least 2 RVL trains into NYP, once the DMs are certified and have proven themselves....kinda like Gladstone midtown direct service...
Haha, I know you have to realize what it would take for NJT to cancel two rush hour NEC trains.
To loosely quote Capt. Jack Aubrey from the movie Master and Commander: "NJT runs a railroad, not a private yacht! WE DO NOT HAVE TIME FOR YOUR DAMNED HOBBIES, SIR!"

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cruiser939
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Re: ALP-45DP's - What will they be used for?

Post by cruiser939 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:03 pm

HBLR wrote:With ridership growing and not really slowing, possible expansion to formerly served lines, and added flexibility, I ask what wont they do with them.
Ummm... NJT won't run them on the Dinky, ACL, and probably not the Gladstone Branch for starters.
To loosely quote Capt. Jack Aubrey from the movie Master and Commander: "NJT runs a railroad, not a private yacht! WE DO NOT HAVE TIME FOR YOUR DAMNED HOBBIES, SIR!"

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Re: ALP-45DP's - What will they be used for?

Post by cruiser939 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:04 pm

morris&essex4ever wrote:But honestly, are 36 dual modes necessary?
Seeing as 26 of them are coming already, there are actually some surprisingly good arguments for why additional dual modes should be acquired.
To loosely quote Capt. Jack Aubrey from the movie Master and Commander: "NJT runs a railroad, not a private yacht! WE DO NOT HAVE TIME FOR YOUR DAMNED HOBBIES, SIR!"

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morris&essex4ever
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Re: ALP-45DP's - What will they be used for?

Post by morris&essex4ever » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:12 pm

cruiser939 wrote:
morris&essex4ever wrote:But honestly, are 36 dual modes necessary?
Seeing as 26 of them are coming already, there are actually some surprisingly good arguments for why additional dual modes should be acquired.


Why not prove that the loco is reliable first before ordering additional units? In addition does NJT really need that many to possibly extend a Midtown Direct or two to Hackettstown or an NJCL train to Bay Head? How many will replace the older diesel locos?
"To cure the British disease with socialism was like trying to cure leukaemia with leeches." Margaret Thatcher

cruiser939
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Re: ALP-45DP's - What will they be used for?

Post by cruiser939 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:30 pm

morris&essex4ever wrote:
cruiser939 wrote:
morris&essex4ever wrote:But honestly, are 36 dual modes necessary?
Seeing as 26 of them are coming already, there are actually some surprisingly good arguments for why additional dual modes should be acquired.


Why not prove that the loco is reliable first before ordering additional units? In addition does NJT really need that many to possibly extend a Midtown Direct or two to Hackettstown or an NJCL train to Bay Head? How many will replace the older diesel locos?
As I said, 26 are coming whether you want them or not. It's a done deal and nothing is changing that. If they're here, NJT might as well use them for their intended purpose. How many diesels get replaced remains to be determined based on how many are ordered. I'm not quite sure why you've decided to join to the nay-sayers bandwagon.
To loosely quote Capt. Jack Aubrey from the movie Master and Commander: "NJT runs a railroad, not a private yacht! WE DO NOT HAVE TIME FOR YOUR DAMNED HOBBIES, SIR!"

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Re: ALP-45DP's - What will they be used for?

Post by keyboardkat » Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:54 pm

jtgshu wrote:

Dual mode, once seat service into NY was one of the key "selling points" for the RVL folks of the Aldene Plan waaaaaaaay back in the 60s.

It was? I thought it was to eliminate the ferry service. Since one-seat service to NY was not accomplished, one wonders whether the Aldene plan was worth it, since it eliminated passenger rail service to all the communities east of Cranford, and service on the Bayonne peninsula. (The Newark Bay Bridge was dynamited and the Cranford-Bayonne RDC shuttle was replaced by a bus, what seems like centuries ago).

Perhaps it would have been better to retain through service to Jersey City, and simply replace the ancient fleet of coal-burning ferries with new, modern boats, and add ferry service to a midtown point in addition to the existing service to Liberty Street.
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Re: ALP-45DP's - What will they be used for?

Post by Jtgshu » Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:29 am

cruiser939 wrote:
Jtgshu wrote:I would hope that NJT would change the schedule and cancel at least two existing trains during rush hours and add at least 2 RVL trains into NYP, once the DMs are certified and have proven themselves....kinda like Gladstone midtown direct service...
Haha, I know you have to realize what it would take for NJT to cancel two rush hour NEC trains.
I do understand, but with so many folks getting off in SEC and and many of the remaining folks getting off in Newark to Xfer to a Raritan train, it really wouldn't be THAT big of a loss and shift of ridership. God forbid an NEC train makes local stops and a South Amboy Local or Jersey Ave train goes away.....
On the RR, "believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see"
John, aka "JTGSHU" passed away on August 26, 2013. We honor his memory and his devotion to railroading at railroad.net.

sixty-six

Re: ALP-45DP's - What will they be used for?

Post by sixty-six » Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:59 am

Jtgshu wrote:
cruiser939 wrote:
Jtgshu wrote:I would hope that NJT would change the schedule and cancel at least two existing trains during rush hours and add at least 2 RVL trains into NYP, once the DMs are certified and have proven themselves....kinda like Gladstone midtown direct service...
Haha, I know you have to realize what it would take for NJT to cancel two rush hour NEC trains.
I do understand, but with so many folks getting off in SEC and and many of the remaining folks getting off in Newark to Xfer to a Raritan train, it really wouldn't be THAT big of a loss and shift of ridership. God forbid an NEC train makes local stops and a South Amboy Local or Jersey Ave train goes away.....
I dont know, 3737 and 3742 have some pretty high ridership numbers...

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Re: ALP-45DP's - What will they be used for?

Post by Jersey_Mike » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:30 am

Will NJT run them in electric mode as much as possible or pull an LIRR/MNRR and run them in diesel even when overhead wire is available? Also instead of canceling the contract perhaps they can have some of the units delivered as straight diesels.

Of course one easy place to dump a few is on the ACES trains.

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Re: ALP-45DP's - What will they be used for?

Post by CNJGeep » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:56 am

If I recall correctly, they will be running in electric mode where possible, due to higher hp output whilst in that mode.
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