Phillipsburg Rail Service—Four Years, $90 Million

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Re: Phillipsburg rail service—Four years, $90 million

Post by NYS&W142Fan » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:33 pm

The Bridge over 519 I was talking about is in Alpha where the Old CNJ from High Bridge crossed over it. From Rt 22 South take 519 South and you need to make a right by Quick Check. Where the line crosses is about 100 feet South of the light. The bridge was taken out a number of years ago because of height restrictions. There is track on either side of the road.

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Re: Phillipsburg rail service—Four years, $90 million

Post by CNJ Fan 4evr » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:36 pm

I still am amazed at the amount of trains that go to High Bridge on weekdays now. Only ever used to be 2 or 3 morning trains then the same at night. Now there's mid-day and early afternoon as well.
I can't undestand why they never came to P'burg via Hackettstown and the former DL&W.Sure would be cheaper than re-activing/repairing the tracks west of High Bridge. That parking lot on Market St. would be perfect to use for a park n ride lot. Market dead ends by old DL&W track. Trains could board by old station off NS main line.Old DL&W line only sees one train a day between 12-7pm anyway and usually a Sunday afternoon run. NJT trains probably wouldn't go into P'burg on weekends anyway. Just a thought.
This stems from Conrail's cost cutting when it started. They never envisioned the future back then. Just get rid of anything that was costing them money at the time. I guesss they never thought the area would grow as it did.Too bad, as we sure could use it now. Yeah they have the bus rides BUT busses get stuck on 78 or 80 when there is an accident too.

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Re: Phillipsburg rail service—Four years, $90 million

Post by Hawaiitiki » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:36 pm

CNJ Fan 4evr wrote:I still am amazed at the amount of trains that go to High Bridge on weekdays now. Only ever used to be 2 or 3 morning trains then the same at night. Now there's mid-day and early afternoon as well.
I can't undestand why they never came to P'burg via Hackettstown and the former DL&W.Sure would be cheaper than re-activing/repairing the tracks west of High Bridge. That parking lot on Market St. would be perfect to use for a park n ride lot. Market dead ends by old DL&W track. Trains could board by old station off NS main line.Old DL&W line only sees one train a day between 12-7pm anyway and usually a Sunday afternoon run. NJT trains probably wouldn't go into P'burg on weekends anyway. Just a thought.
This stems from Conrail's cost cutting when it started. They never envisioned the future back then. Just get rid of anything that was costing them money at the time. I guesss they never thought the area would grow as it did.Too bad, as we sure could use it now. Yeah they have the bus rides BUT busses get stuck on 78 or 80 when there is an accident too.
Using NJT's website, on a weekday

Hackettstown > NYP averages about 2h 15m

High Bridge > NYP averages about 1h 55m

High Bridge is closer "as the crow flies" and "rail miles" to P'burg than Hackettstown. Also the estimated trip times also start getting a little restrictive when you consider how long someone is going to be sitting on a commuter seat. P'Burg to NYP via the RVL would likely take around the same amount of time as it takes now from Hackettstown. Extending the RVL should be the way to go with this project if it ever happens.
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Re: Phillipsburg rail service—Four years, $90 million

Post by CGRLCDR » Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:23 pm

I drive to Asbury almost everyday, passing over the crossing at Ludlow Station Road on the Phillipsburg Branch. For the past few weeks I have been seeing fresh flange marks in the crossing almost everyday. My guess is that NJT is clearing brush and looking for encroachments, but it's encouraging to see that there's still traffic on this branch. :-D

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Re: Phillipsburg Rail Service—Four Years, $90 Million

Post by philipmartin » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:49 pm

Pburg to Allentown. The old CNJ and LV did it why not NJT? Becaause it costs too much.
http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/opinion ... ger_r.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by philipmartin on Fri Aug 14, 2015 4:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Phillipsburg Rail Service—Four Years, $90 Million

Post by NYS&W142Fan » Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:29 pm

It does not help that gas is getting cheaper. It makes the train less appealing.

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Re: Phillipsburg Rail Service—Four Years, $90 Million

Post by umtrr-author » Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:40 pm

Fair use quote from the Lehigh Valley Live article:
The financial disconnect was sobering: More than $1 billion to link the Valley's three cities and Phillipsburg to the NJ Transit terminus in High Bridge. Even if such a taxpayer investment could be raised, the study predicted ridership would generate about $3.3 million in annual revenue, against $15 million in operating costs.
That's a lot more than four years and $90 million... although let's not forget that this thread was started more than four years ago.

Also from the LVL piece:
Save your money... take the bus.
Hard to argue with that.
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Re: Phillipsburg Rail Service—Four Years, $90 Million

Post by philipmartin » Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:43 pm

umtrr-author wrote:
Also from the LVL piece:
Save your money... take the bus.
Hard to argue with that.
NJ Transit ran that bus for a few years, until Trans Bridge took it over.

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Re: Phillipsburg Rail Service—Four Years, $90 Million

Post by philipmartin » Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:47 pm

78 is a parking lot east of Pburg during weekday rush hour, and I suuppose, near Newark, too.

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Re: Phillipsburg Rail Service—Four Years, $90 Million

Post by CNJ Fan 4evr » Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:02 am

Just like the Cutoff, this service will likely never see a train in our lifetimes,unfortunately. They cut off their noses to spite their faces back in the '80's. Ironically,at the same time the steps were in place to increase the population with several development projects. They never looked at the "big picture" just the big $$$$ that was rolling in.
Looking at this from a taxpayer's view and NOT a railfan's view,it would cost TOO MUCH to implement. More than I am willing to pay.

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Re: Phillipsburg Rail Service—Four Years, $90 Million

Post by CPSK » Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:46 am

NJT needs to focus its attention on the NEC/NYC tunnel issue, where most of their revenue comes from, and which is hurting the most.
While expanding service west to Phillipsburg would be a great incentive for business and home building, I fear that, what would happen is that NJT would start a project, builders would invest, and people would move in. Then, after NJT realizes that they have far overspent their budget yet again, there would be no rail service, and those now living in the new communities would be forced to use their cars, and further clog the highways.

A far worse outcome would be that builders invest, but no one moves in - thus bankrupting the builders, and putting enormous strain on lenders.
NJ really needs to get its act together when it comes to mass transit. We need a plan that will work, and attract investors - and then come to fruition. That may be asking for too much though.

Perhaps there is a better chance of getting service to Phillipsburg from Scranton. With the fracking industry growing in the Scranton area, and Phillipsburg within commuting distance, rail service might be lucrative, perhaps for a private, rather than a government supported enterprise.

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Re: Phillipsburg Rail Service—Four Years, $90 Million

Post by nick11a » Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:36 pm

CNJ Fan 4evr wrote:Just like the Cutoff, this service will likely never see a train in our lifetimes,unfortunately. They cut off their noses to spite their faces back in the '80's. Ironically,at the same time the steps were in place to increase the population with several development projects. They never looked at the "big picture" just the big $$$$ that was rolling in.
Looking at this from a taxpayer's view and NOT a railfan's view,it would cost TOO MUCH to implement. More than I am willing to pay.
Cut-off work will resume soon..... but only to Andover. As for any service to Phillipsburg, don't hold your breath.
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Re: Phillipsburg Rail Service—Four Years, $90 Million

Post by mtuandrew » Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:54 pm

CNJ Fan 4evr wrote:We don't need any more homes around here. They have already "raped" enough farmland.Trouble with P'burg is that not that many people who live in town itself actually travel that far to get to work. This town is full of welfare/ section 8.Why would they need to take the train ?
Those people would need to take the train because
This town is full of welfare/ section 8
and
not that many people who live in town itself actually travel that far
. Train service means that the folks who are currently on welfare and living in Section 8 housing can reliably get to new, better-paying jobs on the other side of NJ, jobs which apparently don't exist in great numbers in Phillipsburg.

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Re: Phillipsburg Rail Service—Four Years, $90 Million

Post by rr503 » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:17 pm

mtuandrew wrote:
CNJ Fan 4evr wrote:We don't need any more homes around here. They have already "raped" enough farmland.Trouble with P'burg is that not that many people who live in town itself actually travel that far to get to work. This town is full of welfare/ section 8.Why would they need to take the train ?
Those people would need to take the train because
This town is full of welfare/ section 8
and
not that many people who live in town itself actually travel that far
. Train service means that the folks who are currently on welfare and living in Section 8 housing can reliably get to new, better-paying jobs on the other side of NJ, jobs which apparently don't exist in great numbers in Phillipsburg.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
And... P'burg may not have very many commuters, but what about people across the river? Or within a drive of the line?
The Lehigh Valley would love a rail connection to the east, and if this was done, it wouldn't be too crazy to think about going west.
Also. Development for RR commuters usually is much more dense than for car commuters, so less farmland raped (if any, you could just rebuild the current developments, and turn the rest back to nature!)

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Re: Phillipsburg Rail Service—Four Years, $90 Million

Post by Wingnut » Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:34 pm

From a capital standpoint, Phillipsburg (and on to PA) is going to cost a bundle. But is the operating side of the equation going to be as bad as that report suggests too? Somewhere else around here is a breakdown of NJT lines on cost recovery and Port Jervis has one of the better farebox ratios. I know it might not be an exact apple to apple comparison but there are a bunch of parallels between the two. They're both longer distance services with a relatively limited number of trains per day. Other lines like LA to Lancaster, WAS to Martinsburg, and San Jose to Stockton also come to mind. As far as I know the financials of none of those lines is that bad.

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