The Raritan Valley Line Thread…

Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

Moderators: Tadman, nick11a, ACeInTheHole, Kaback9

TDowling
Posts: 529
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:36 pm
Location: West Point, NY

Re: The Raritan Valley Line Thread…

Post by TDowling » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:59 am

According to North Jersey.com, Raritan Valley One seat ride service to Penn Station will resume November 4th.

pumpers
Posts: 2100
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:56 pm

Re: The Raritan Valley Line Thread…

Post by pumpers » Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:52 pm

It must be true - the governor says so!
https://www.nj.com/traffic/2019/10/murp ... nding.html

User avatar
lensovet
Posts: 1114
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:30 pm
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: The Raritan Valley Line Thread…

Post by lensovet » Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:00 am

pumpers wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:52 pm
It must be true - the governor says so!
https://www.nj.com/traffic/2019/10/murp ... nding.html
um…your point?
Paul Borokhov

Last RRPicArch addition – NJ Railfan.

NJT RailCalifornia commuter (mod)

Ryand-Smith
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:26 pm

Re: The Raritan Valley Line Thread…

Post by Ryand-Smith » Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:32 pm

It happened today. I rode the Raritan train to Penn Station today from Roselle Park

amtrakowitz
Posts: 1115
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:33 pm

Re: The Raritan Valley Line Thread…

Post by amtrakowitz » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:50 am

The Raritan Valley Line's "one-seat ride" into Penn Station New York will be studied by NJ Transit and a report must be issued in July, according to legislation signed by Gov. Phil Murphy on Monday.

Bill No. S3574, which passed both houses of the state Legislature in December, requires the agency to study several items, including:
  • Why the Raritan Valley Line's direct service to Penn Station was suspended;
  • Historical and expected ridership on the line;
  • Actions required to provide full-time, direct service to Penn Station;
  • How long those actions would take;
  • Estimated cost to provide the service;
  • Factors that could delay or increase the cost of adding the service. …
The Raritan Valley Line serves more than 23,000 daily commuters in a corridor where 1 million people live, about the same number of commuters as the North Jersey Coast Line, which has 11 trains in the morning and 13 trains in the afternoon with direct access to Manhattan. The NJCL also services Newark Airport.

To accommodate direct service to and from New York on the line during rush hours, another NJ Transit train line would have to sacrifice its slot, as only 23 trains can travel through the rail tunnels connecting New York and New Jersey per hour. …
Murphy signs law requiring NJ Transit to study Raritan Valley 'one-seat ride' to Penn — NorthJersey.com

kilroy
Posts: 913
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:51 am
Location: Central Jersey

Re: The Raritan Valley Line Thread…

Post by kilroy » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:44 pm

Looks like a million dollar handout to some campaign contributing consulting outfit.

Good idea would be to read some railroad.net message boards.

Why the Raritan Valley Line's direct service to Penn Station was suspended; - PTC equipment shortages
Historical and expected ridership on the line;
Actions required to provide full-time, direct service to Penn Station; - Build two new tunnels under the Hudson to Penn Station
How long those actions would take; - decades
Estimated cost to provide the service; - billions
Factors that could delay or increase the cost of adding the service. - politics

We covered it all here (I'm not sure we covered ridership levels like they mandate but we have members who could get that info). We should put in for the job. :P
Why do we drive on parkways and park in driveways?

njt/mnrrbuff
Posts: 3581
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:33 pm

Re: The Raritan Valley Line Thread…

Post by njt/mnrrbuff » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:41 pm

First, we need double the capacity of tracks underneath the Hudson River as well as all the way to NWK Penn Station-these parts of the NEC are a huge bottleneck. While it's great that the midday trains and post pm rush hour trains are directs into the city along the RVL, the real test comes with running direct trains into the city during the am rush hour and then outbound during the pm rush. That would mean having to cut some other NJT trains-this decision is very tough since many of the NJT trains are packed into the city during the am rush as well as outbound during the pm rush. I don't think passengers who use the 3900 series trains to commute to work in the city and out again will be very happy if their trains were cut. Those trains see so many riders. I could maybe see a Midtown Direct or two heading to MSU getting cut and being replaced by a brand new train to and from Hoboken. Passengers coming from NYP and SEC would switch at NWK Broad Street for the MSU train.

FANWOODGUY
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:13 pm

Re: The Raritan Valley Line Thread…

Post by FANWOODGUY » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:16 pm

What prevents direct service on the weekend? One additional train into and out of Penn on the hour seems doable.

andrewjw
Posts: 458
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:48 am

Re: The Raritan Valley Line Thread…

Post by andrewjw » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:23 pm

On single-tracking weekends, Penn service can be *very* cramped. See the Amtrak forums for the math on this, but the answer is that regional + acela + 1.5 flex Amtrak slots (Keystone and long distance) + two NEC + NJCL + 1.5 MidTown DIRECT = 8 trains, 8 trains with 2 minute headways in 2 directions is 32 minutes, and the time from Newark to Secaucus and Secaucus to Penn are both about 9 minutes (either of which might be single-tracked), leaving 10 slack minutes (5 during each hand-off) for late trains. I'm sure if they could reliably run another train in each direction (leaving 3 slack minutes in each direction) they would, but the rest of the network doesn't have high enough reliability to accomplish this.

FANWOODGUY
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:13 pm

Re: The Raritan Valley Line Thread…

Post by FANWOODGUY » Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:37 pm

Appreciate the explanation, will search the Amtrak forum for more info. I don't have sufficient knowledge about the 1.5 flex situation with both Amtrak and Midtown Direct. Without impacting Amtrak I was under the assumption midtown direct was one train on the hour (don't go that way so bear with me). if the half a slot allocated to that service is shifted to the RVL what if anything changes?

andrewjw
Posts: 458
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:48 am

Re: The Raritan Valley Line Thread…

Post by andrewjw » Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:13 am

Whoops. You're right, weekend Montclair trains run to Hoboken. I guess that slot I thought was split between LDs and Montclair trains is just controlled by Amtrak. Perhaps it would be possible to run some trains direct to NYC.

Yankees1
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:00 pm

Re: The Raritan Valley Line Thread…

Post by Yankees1 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:05 pm

Over the past few years (but not 2018 or 2019) during the summer, they run 4 trains per day on the weekend in both directions as supplemental NJCL beach expresses (I believe they roll out of Penn on the :01's). So those slots are definitely available.

They also run extra trains on holidays, but I'm not sure if they have both tunnels open on holidays.

User avatar
lensovet
Posts: 1114
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:30 pm
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: The Raritan Valley Line Thread…

Post by lensovet » Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:16 am

Yankees1 wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:05 pm
Over the past few years (but not 2018 or 2019) during the summer, they run 4 trains per day on the weekend in both directions as supplemental NJCL beach expresses (I believe they roll out of Penn on the :01's). So those slots are definitely available.

They also run extra trains on holidays, but I'm not sure if they have both tunnels open on holidays.
Guess why they haven't run them in the past two years? Not due to a lack of demand.
Paul Borokhov

Last RRPicArch addition – NJ Railfan.

NJT RailCalifornia commuter (mod)

Return to “New Jersey Transit NJT Rail and Light Rail LRT”