New York to Atlantic City Service (ACES)

[hsr_fan]

Plenty of info on the Turboliners in the Amtrak forum, and I believe that hsr_fan is a big proponent of them.

Yes, and that is me standing alongside the Turboliner in that photo. It was nicer than the worn Amfleet cars that they run with now on that route. Amtrak complained about poor A/C, but I've experienced more air conditioning problems in Amfleet cars than I did on the Turboliners. I won't even ride Amtrak on the Empire Corridor anymore due to the downgrades in service. No Turbos and no food service means no business from me.

But in the case of NJ Transit's AC service, I think that if they plan on direct service from NYC, a locomotive change in Philly might be the most likely option. I don't see NJT acquiring dual mode locomotives for the service, and there's really no way other than a locomotive swap to provide direct service from NYP.

[Steve F45]

Plenty of info on the Turboliners in the Amtrak forum, and I believe that hsr_fan is a big proponent of them. If I recall, one of the primary problems is the air conditioning system. Never mind. Do we really want NJT maintaining old equipment that has been rotting for some time now?

Given "current" equipment, would it make sense to extend the third rail from NYP to Secaucus, run the proven Gennies (with proper modifications for clearance issues), and then switch on over to diesel at a stop at Secaucus? I think that MN runs them this way, only running them from GCT to 125th in electric mode, diesel the rest of the way.

if they ran gennies, would they be in amtrak or njt paint?

[Jishnu]

if they ran gennies, would they be in amtrak or njt paint?

Since it is the Casinos that will be paying for it, it is entirely possible that it will run using whatever colors the Casinos want to put on it whatever it is that they happen to lease.

[rail__debris]

since the idea of this service is transport gamblers from nyc to ac in a more comfortable style, has any company considered creating ferry service from new york to atlantic city?

njt may be getting into the ferry service soon, so this may be something for them to consider.

[Steve F45]

ferry? i would imagine that would take alot longer then 2.5hrs. Might aswell make it an offshore gambling boat then.


and i thought njt had some ownership of the weehawkin waterway's new terminal?

[uzplayer]

since the idea of this service is transport gamblers from nyc to ac in a more comfortable style, has any company considered creating ferry service from new york to atlantic city?

njt may be getting into the ferry service soon, so this may be something for them to consider.

I would think that ferry service would be uncomfortable. Furthermore, wouldn't they need to operate in international waters to actually have gambling? That would only increase the trip I think.

[TR-00]

Hold on a minute. On Monday, NJT's Board of Directors approved the initiation of NYP-AC service.

That's all that has been done. Any studies at this point are simply studies. Yes the ACES has approved the money to purchase equipment, and the CRDA has approved the money for operational and marketing subsidies. In neither case, has the money been placed in NJT's hot little hand.

NOTHING is definite at this point. Anyone here who is claiming to know things such as where the trains will turn, diesel and electrics on the same train, crew sizes and bases is talking through their rectum.

Yes, NJT has spoken to Amtrak about leasing locomotives, but the key words here are "spoken to". Nothing has been selected, picked, decided upon or even approved for lease. NJT may change its mind, and Amtrak might not wish to enter into such an agreement. Who knows at this point?

Well, maybe a couple of expert foamers....!

[nick11a]

Hold on a minute. On Monday, NJT's Board of Directors approved the initiation of NYP-AC service.

That's all that has been done. Any studies at this point are simply studies. Yes the ACES has approved the money to purchase equipment, and the CRDA has approved the money for operational and marketing subsidies. In neither case, has the money been placed in NJT's hot little hand.

NOTHING is definite at this point. Anyone here who is claiming to know things such as where the trains will turn, diesel and electrics on the same train, crew sizes and bases is talking through their rectum.

Yes, NJT has spoken to Amtrak about leasing locomotives, but the key words here are "spoken to". Nothing has been selected, picked, decided upon or even approved for lease. NJT may change its mind, and Amtrak might not wish to enter into such an agreement. Who knows at this point?

Well, maybe a couple of expert foamers....!

So this means they're installing a connecting track at Frankford Junction to allow one way trips from AC to NY and vice versa, right.

[fetzdog121]

if i can play dumb for a minute or two I'm not too framiliar with all of the names of all of teh junctions and interlockings, but where is frankford juction? Im assuming it would be near philly, but Im not too sure where

[nick11a]

if i can play dumb for a minute or two I'm not too framiliar with all of the names of all of teh junctions and interlockings, but where is frankford juction? Im assuming it would be near philly, but Im not too sure where

Frankford Junction is the junction point where the ACL joins/leaves the NEC and also has a freight yard where Conrail Shared Assets comes out of onto the NEC.

[newjackRR]

Shore is the name of the interlocking.

[chuchubob]

Frankford Junction is in Philly.
Sunday after Thanksgiving at Frankford Junction: Amtrak, SEPTA, NJT

[blockss]

ferry? i would imagine that would take alot longer then 2.5hrs. Might aswell make it an offshore gambling boat then.

Here is a link estimating cost and time for use of a ferry. Since it dates to 1999, I'm guessing the fuel costs are a bit higher now. It looks like a three hour trip is possible, but costwise, would not be on par with the busses.
http://www.mapcorp.com/page6.html
Offshore gambling might be a positive though. While such a vessle would most likely have slot machines and a few tables on board, it wouldn't be quite a full casino. Rather the casinos could use the onboard gambling to lure people into making even larger wagers when they got to AC. Keep in mind that Gambling is not the only thing that people go to AC for, and the casinos want to maximize the time that people are gambling. From this perspective, a slower trip is desirable.

The real problem with the rail is getting from the station to the Casino's. The Marina Casinos would benefit from a ferry system, while the other Casinos would benefit from a service that could service them directly. I'm assuming though that the track from AC to PHL is shared with Freight. If this is not the case, I would be inclinded to think that a light rail system with more frequent service that goes directly to casinos would be the best solution.

[uzplayer]

That to me wouldn't make sense. If they're trying to attract a regular vacation crowd, wouldn't that mean people would waste their money there versus waisting it in AC? To me, all it looks like you're doing is shifting the activity from one channel to another.

ferry? i would imagine that would take alot longer then 2.5hrs. Might aswell make it an offshore gambling boat then.

Here is a link estimating cost and time for use of a ferry. Since it dates to 1999, I'm guessing the fuel costs are a bit higher now. It looks like a three hour trip is possible, but costwise, would not be on par with the busses.
http://www.mapcorp.com/page6.html
Offshore gambling might be a positive though. While such a vessle would most likely have slot machines and a few tables on board, it wouldn't be quite a full casino. Rather the casinos could use the onboard gambling to lure people into making even larger wagers when they got to AC. Keep in mind that Gambling is not the only thing that people go to AC for, and the casinos want to maximize the time that people are gambling. From this perspective, a slower trip is desirable.

The real problem with the rail is getting from the station to the Casino's. The Marina Casinos would benefit from a ferry system, while the other Casinos would benefit from a service that could service them directly. I'm assuming though that the track from AC to PHL is shared with Freight. If this is not the case, I would be inclinded to think that a light rail system with more frequent service that goes directly to casinos would be the best solution.

[blockss]

That to me wouldn't make sense. If they're trying to attract a regular vacation crowd, wouldn't that mean people would waste their money there versus waisting it in AC? To me, all it looks like you're doing is shifting the activity from one channel to another.

That is true, however, the money gets made by whoever runs the service and it doesn't matter where the money is made as long as it is made. People go to AC to do other things besides gambling. Some go to see shows, some go for the beach, some for the food, some to have parties and conventions, and some go to stay in a luxery hotel.
In the past I've taken bus trips to AC where I walked into the casino, picked up my cash voucher and left without gambling. I took trips to Vegas and Reno were I was able to avoid the slot machines until I had to wait for my plane to go back home. If I was on a four hour ferry ride and the slots were in front of me. The temptation would be too high to ignore.
Also, as I mentioned, the idea is to lure passengers into gambling in the casinos. If the trip down to AC involved free slots for prizes, where the odds of winning were set high this would tempt passengers to gamble more when they got to the casinos. If prizes such as coupons for various services such as restuarants and stores could be won, this would mostly serve as additional advertising. Prize slots might also work on a train, but not as well.
It might be the most efficient to have prize slots on the way down and real slots on the way back(for those who haven't yet squandered all their money).