New Jersey Transit is failing to expand

Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

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njt/mnrrbuff
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Re: New Jersey Transit is failing to expand

Post by njt/mnrrbuff » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:06 pm

Probably in the next ten years, many of the new rail routes will be more so on the light rail side of things. Hopefully, sooner rather than later, we will hear about shovels digging for construction of the light rail to Englewood. It seems that if you live in the Hoboken area and work in Englewood, you would have a faster commute on the light rail. Hopefully five years from now, HBLRT also be extended across 440 to the development near Hudson Mall. In six years, passengers will be able to take light rail from Glassboro to Camden with a connection of buses or Patco to Philadelphia.

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Tadman
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Re: New Jersey Transit is failing to expand

Post by Tadman » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:24 am

Dude this thread could be "TLDR get out of Jersey".
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ryanov
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Re: New Jersey Transit is failing to expand

Post by ryanov » Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:38 am

I very occasionally travel from Newark to Englewood to go to bergenPAC. It's presently a grind -- 2-3 buses that have long routes and are seldom on time. I'm looking forward to the day where I take the PATH to Exchange Place and get on the light rail. It can't be slower than the current bus situation (though usually the trip home is pretty swift, rush hour long since passed/change in Union City).
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Steampowered
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Re: New Jersey Transit is failing to expand

Post by Steampowered » Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:35 am

They just need the eastern Pennsylvania connection done. I know some many people going down 78 and 80 to nyc everyday. It really just needs to go right to the casino

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Re: New Jersey Transit is failing to expand

Post by CNJGeep » Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:08 pm

Steampowered wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:35 am
They just need the eastern Pennsylvania connection done. I know some many people going down 78 and 80 to nyc everyday. It really just needs to go right to the casino
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Re: New Jersey Transit is failing to expand

Post by Roadgeek Adam » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:36 am

Steampowered wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:35 am
They just need the eastern Pennsylvania connection done. I know some many people going down 78 and 80 to nyc everyday. It really just needs to go right to the casino
There's a crapton of money, contracts and other stuff that needs to be dealt with before this could even be considered. Besides, we need money for Portal and a new tunnel long before we need money for an extension
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rcthompson04
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Re: New Jersey Transit is failing to expand

Post by rcthompson04 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:34 am

Roadgeek Adam wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:36 am
Steampowered wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:35 am
They just need the eastern Pennsylvania connection done. I know some many people going down 78 and 80 to nyc everyday. It really just needs to go right to the casino
There's a crapton of money, contracts and other stuff that needs to be dealt with before this could even be considered. Besides, we need money for Portal and a new tunnel long before we need money for an extension
Agree. Pennsylvania is not really going to pony up the money for the bulk of the upgrades even though it primarily benefits Pennsylvania.

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Re: New Jersey Transit is failing to expand

Post by Tom V » Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:35 am

MaRoFu wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:17 pm
Over the years, many expansions and proposals have been made by NJT for its already expansive system, such as:
- Northern Branch Corridor Project
- Lackawanna Cutoff Restoration
- Route 440 HBLR Extension
- Proposed HBLR Secaucus/Meadowlands Extension
- Glassboro-Camden Light Rail
- Passaic-Bergen Rail Line
- MOM Line

The list goes on and on. Now let's forget about the planning and other stuff, and just think about how much actual construction has been done on these projects. The amount of construction that has taken place, with the exception of the Cutoff Restoration, is...

NONE

How embarrassing is it that it has been 17 years or more since some of these projects came to light, yet they are still stuck at square 1? And apparently some of them still won't open until a DECADE after this post. In the time it takes for these projects to actually become a reality, the following things have or will be finished:

Hokuriku Shinkansen extension from Nagano-Kanazawa (200?-2015)
Hokuriku Shinkansen extension from Kanazawa-Tsuruga (2012-2023)
The American Dream at Meadowlands/Xanadu (2019)
Joban Line full service restoration (2020)
7 Line Extension
99 Hudson Street in Jersey City (2019)
PATH Extension to EWR (2020-2026)
Japanese Maglev (2027)
HBLR Extension to 8th Street
EWR New Terminal A (2022)
Cortlandt Street Station (December 2018)
PATH World Trade Center Hub (A billion and a half dollars that could've been used for the things coming up)

If I were to list all of them, this page would be very long. But it is just shows how flawed NJ Transit is in my opinion. Although the dumb decisions of places such as Tenafly did contribute to the delay of the HBLR Extension, it still does not excuse the other projects. At least the cutoff project appears to be going well. I should also mention all the wasted potentials NJT could have done to improve their system. Here are a few proposals I came up with:

Newark Light Rail to West Orange (may require lots of land acquisition and may face opposition, but if those are resolved it might be possible)
Light Rail to Newark Airport, Jersey Gardens, and Elizabeth (seriously, why did NJT abandon this? Lack of funds?)
HBLR to Edgewater (it might cost a lot to repair the tunnel, but Edgewater suffers from vehicle congestion, so it might be worth it)
Access to the Region's Core (it was a mistake to ditch this. Our lives would be much easier if this wasn't cancelled)
Montclair-Boonton Line Pompton Branch (basically the Greenwood Lake to North of Pompton Junction)
Electrification of Main/Bergen County/Montclair-Boonton Line

I honestly do not get what the agency's problem is, whether it is lack of funds, corrupt governors, bad management, or something else, they need to get themselves moving.

I'm just hoping this is in the right thread.
NJ Transit was doing well from about the mid '90s through 2009 or so. Mid-Town Direct, Montclair Connection, Secaucus Jct, Newark Light rail, Hudson Bergen Light Rail, Riverline, Bi-level equipment etc..

I think though that in terms of heavy rail NJ Transit really cannot add anymore capacity to the system, expansion, without more trans-Hudson capacity. I live near Freehold and have been dreaming of the MOM line for 20+ years now. I believe it will happen, but I also think it shouldn't happen until there's a way to get the people into Manhattan.

Four years ago I started commuting into Lower Manhattan, I tried the train but because there's no NJ Transit station near where I live I take the bus. I've tried taking the train from Woodbridge, Matawan, South Amboy but the trains are too crowded. I end up standing for most of the trip. Hoboken terminal is great, but after taking the Hoboken NJCL trains it's obvious that 98% of the people get off at Newark Penn and either get on the PATH or a Mid-town bound NJ Transit train. The PATH is also bursting at the seams, they're increasing capacity but that will quickly be taken up by all the new residents moving to Jersey City and Harrison.

All efforts, funding etc.. for NJ Transit should be put into three items:

1.) Replacing the Portal Bridge (reliability, growth)
2.) new Hudson tunnel (growth)
3.) equipment upgrades, investment in infrastructure, new stations and parking (reliability)

When those items are in place then lets get to MOM, West Trenton and more frequency on the NJCL, NEC and RVL to Penn.

The only expansion projects NJ Transit should look at short term are those that do not feed more passengers onto NJ Transit mid-town trains.

1. Glassboro extension to Riverline
2. HBLRT Expansion North and West
3. Passaic - Bergen rail
4. Riverline to West Trenton

Also the State of New Jersey, Hudson County and the Port Authority should look at further subsidizing the ferries to NYC. The Staten Island ferry is free, perhaps NJ Transit could subsidize a free transfer for monthly pass holders to the Hudson ferries. Get people off the PATH.

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Re: New Jersey Transit is failing to expand

Post by Roadgeek Adam » Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:52 pm

River Line to West Trenton seems incredibly unlikely. Expanding RVL service to West Trenton would be better in that theory. Neither are going to happen any time soon. In fact, it's probably likely Belle Mead will end up being demolished sooner or later.

Passaic-Bergen Rail should just be merged into the HBLR regardless if a deal can be struck with NYSW on that. Not worth having a Hawthorne to Hackensack shuttle.
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njt/mnrrbuff
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Re: New Jersey Transit is failing to expand

Post by njt/mnrrbuff » Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:40 pm

It's important that the RL gets extended to serve Downtown Trenton as that is where many of the jobs in that city are. W. Trenton doesn't need to have any River Line extension. Maybe instead, improve the bus route that serves W. Trenton. It's frequency is meager.

Roadgeek Adam
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Re: New Jersey Transit is failing to expand

Post by Roadgeek Adam » Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:15 am

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:40 pm
It's important that the RL gets extended to serve Downtown Trenton as that is where many of the jobs in that city are. W. Trenton doesn't need to have any River Line extension. Maybe instead, improve the bus route that serves W. Trenton. It's frequency is meager.

The problem is, where in Trenton would you run it? TTC RL station is already pretty close to main buildings.

You'd probably have to do a street loop a la the Blue Line in Long Beach and it just runs back into TTC rather than build a new terminus.
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ExCon90
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Re: New Jersey Transit is failing to expand

Post by ExCon90 » Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:56 pm

I believe the original plan consisted of a street loop around the State House. That would present an interesting challenge in that the ATS inductors are all on the east side of both the tracks and the cars, since the cars are never turned. Introducing a loop would require having a set of ATS equipment on each side of each car. In any case they really need to do something like that loop--a transfer to a bus for such a short haul would really be a hindrance.

Tom V
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New Jersey Transit is failing to expand

Post by Tom V » Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:46 pm

Another potential NJ Transit investment / expansion would be to improve the Meadowlands link by extending it further South across Route 3 connecting back on the Main/Bergen line. This would allow for thru running of Pascack Valley line trains and establishing the Meadowlands Sports Complex station a full time station to serve American Dream as well as Sports events.

Service to the Sports complex station would be greatly improved as the trains do not need to reverse direction back over the way trains come into the station. Trains can be laid up in Hoboken and dispatched to loop through the Sports complex and back to Secaucus jct. and or Hoboken. Trains can also be dispatched after events to pick up passengers at the complex who are heading to points North by offering the thru service of Pascack Valley line trains and or looping the Bergen/Main/Port Jervis trains through the Sports complex and then back onto the Main/Bergen line for points North.

This would realize the true potential of the link which really does not work today as it should. There are well documented problems from concerts, the Super bowl etc.. where it was more hassle than it was worth for patrons who were piled up either at the Sports complex or Secaucus jct.
Last edited by Tom V on Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Backshophoss
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Re: New Jersey Transit is failing to expand

Post by Backshophoss » Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:01 pm

NJT still needs to to train new crews and get it's act together equipment wise,how can you expand without the resources to do so??
The "Christe" years did major damage to NJT internally,it takes time to undo that damage!
Wait a couple of years and see what state NJT is condition wise at that point
There are too many trains cancelled due to crew and equipment issues NOW!
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Tom V
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Re: New Jersey Transit is failing to expand

Post by Tom V » Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:48 am

Backshophoss wrote:NJT still needs to to train new crews and get it's act together equipment wise,how can you expand without the resources to do so??
The "Christe" years did major damage to NJT internally,it takes time to undo that damage!
Wait a couple of years and see what state NJT is condition wise at that point
There are too many trains cancelled due to crew and equipment issues NOW!
Indeed, yesterday when I logged onto Njtransit's website there were several notifications for train cancelations due to crew availability. I know it's going to take longer to get qualified train crews, in the bus division they seem to have had much better success getting staffed up.

I take Academy bus to commute from Freehold to Lower Manhattan. In the past couple years our buses would cancel all the time as Academy seemed to have a contract with NjTransit to cover their route 9- Port Authority routes when they were short.

I have not seen an Academy bus operating a NJ Transit bus route in at least six months or more. I think I read a quote from NJ Transit management that they're now able to operate every piece of bus equipment everyday. Huge improvement.

Hopefully NJ Transit's rail operations will get to the same place soon. I believe the new Hudson tunnels will come on line, and that the time between when that gets underway and its completion is the time to staff up, rebuild the fleet and complete all the studies to grow the system.

If the Secaucus loop is included in the project that will free up capacity at Hoboken for new trains such as the Lackawanna cut-off, West Shore, NYSW etc..


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