Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

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Gilbert B Norman
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Location: Clarendon Hills, IL (BNSF Chicago Sub; MP 18.71)

Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by Gilbert B Norman » Thu May 23, 2019 10:57 am

Sorta looks like this "Beowulf" I inadvertently created has become the GOT Dragons with its latest diversions to I-80 highway traffic.

Funny how on my auto trips to Greenwich ( ORD-HPN either on Chautauqua Airlines or Expressjet can get mighty megabuck if not booked properly), Eastward I'm on the 287 at Parsippany Twp and moving at posted, X-ing the GMCB (formerly TZB) and its $5 EZ-Pass toll ($15 on GWB), still moving at or near posted and looking at all those poor souls trying to "snake" their way WW.

Returning, funny how I'm departing Greenwich at about 930A for my toll free X-ing over George and with little traffic on the 95 getting there.

Of course, I respect that Miss Phoebe's trip is for business apparently in Manhattan and cannot avail "herself" of that option - especially with time of travel.

njt/mnrrbuff
Posts: 3486
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:33 pm

Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by njt/mnrrbuff » Thu May 23, 2019 5:06 pm

I think it's safe to say that in general, people who might live closer to the stations on the M&E west of Dover will drive to either Dover or even Denville for more service. Very few trains continue beyond Dover and the frequencies get even smaller west of Mt. Olive.

Don't be surprised if there are people who might live in the Mt. Olive area who will drive to Harrison and take the Path. In fact, even when you enter electrified territory on the M&E, there are still many people who drive to Harrison for the Path train as the NJT train rides are still too long, especially on weekends. Once you get to Morristown, then the trains either empty out when heading west or they start to fill up when heading east.

CentralValleyRail
Posts: 583
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:51 pm
Location: Wayne, NJ NJTR-MP (20.8)

Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by CentralValleyRail » Thu May 23, 2019 7:52 pm

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:I think it's safe to say that in general, people who might live closer to the stations on the M&E west of Dover will drive to either Dover or even Denville for more service. Very few trains continue beyond Dover and the frequencies get even smaller west of Mt. Olive.

Don't be surprised if there are people who might live in the Mt. Olive area who will drive to Harrison and take the Path. In fact, even when you enter electrified territory on the M&E, there are still many people who drive to Harrison for the Path train as the NJT train rides are still too long, especially on weekends. Once you get to Morristown, then the trains either empty out when heading west or they start to fill up when heading east.
Most people do not drive from Western Morris County to take the PATH. There may be a few. As in like 5 people. The drive into Harrison is one of the worst drives in the state, 280 the GSP and NJTP are some of the worst rush hour roads.. It can take one an hour plus to go from Denville to Harrison..
lensovet wrote:
R36 Combine Coach wrote:
JasW wrote:
The younger generation (or "younger generation," as the esteemed Mr. Norman might put it) has gravitated to the urban core, rather than West Podunk. People will not be lining up to commute to NYC from Blairstown or anywhere across the Delaware. Even Andover seems like a waste -- you might as well just drive to the station in Mt. Olive.
Mount Olive wasn't apparently built as a park-ride, unlike Mount Arlington station off I-80. Mount Olive only has 23 spaces, meaning if even each space was filled with a carpool of five, everyone could fit in a single Comet V coach.

and despite being built as a park-and-ride station, Arlington only got 110 average weekday riders in 2017. On a lot that has 274 parking spots.

Note that Wayne-Rt 23 does even worse with just 106 weekday riders. I guess the one seat ride (or lack thereof) really does kill ridership.


Yeah because the parking lot is full by 7:30am with bus riders and people have to go to the overflow at Mother's Park and Ride... Most riders who ride from Wayne actually get on at Mountain View,(and anyone who actually lives in Wayne will drive by Mountain View on the way to 23 transit center) parking is free and you don't have to deal with the park and ride which is a zoo in and of itself.. So combine that ridership number. The lack of a true express train or one seat ride as you mentioned kills Wayne. Get better service into Wayne and people will use it... it's 10 minutes back to double tracking territory and the yard it's not rocket science.. But then again NJ MID LEVEL crap management is BAD. The bus takes OVER an hour during rush hour and Saturday and Sunday is no picnic either.
Last edited by CentralValleyRail on Thu May 23, 2019 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

joeycannoli
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Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:18 pm

Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by joeycannoli » Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:17 am

FY20 NJT budget has $8.8M set aside for the Cutoff. Hope to see some actual work start soon.

https://www.progressiverailroading.com/ ... ets--58105

Gilbert B Norman
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Location: Clarendon Hills, IL (BNSF Chicago Sub; MP 18.71)

Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by Gilbert B Norman » Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:49 am

It's "come and get it" time for the consultants.

joeycannoli
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Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:18 pm

Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by joeycannoli » Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:13 am

Gilbert B Norman wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:49 am
It's "come and get it" time for the consultants.
Yep, lets see how many more studies need to be done on the Roseville tunnel. Just daylight the damn thing and be done with it.

Hawaiitiki
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Location: Bogenhausen, München

Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by Hawaiitiki » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:38 am

joeycannoli wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:13 am

Yep, lets see how many more studies need to be done on the Roseville tunnel. Just daylight the damn thing and be done with it.
That might disturb a rare type of beetle or a stagnant pond of water that a bobcat once may have once stepped in.
Double Track, Grade Separate, and Electrify America!

R36 Combine Coach
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:03 pm

Also copperhead country (they're designated by NJDEP as "special concern" with declining numbers).
Since my friend continues to chain smoke nonstop, she is probably an Alco.

WashingtonPark
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:23 pm

Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by WashingtonPark » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:46 pm

Gilbert B Norman wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:49 am
It's "come and get it" time for the consultants.
Ain't that the truth.

Dcell
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:14 pm

Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by Dcell » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:10 pm

Isn’t this the only passenger rail extension project under construction in NJ today? Why would you need consultants when the thing is being built right now?

Gilbert B Norman
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Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:52 am
Location: Clarendon Hills, IL (BNSF Chicago Sub; MP 18.71)

Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by Gilbert B Norman » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:23 pm

Mr. Dcell, there are so many interests out there using our "furry and feathery friends" as "props" for their interests that Sussex County is not ready for development.

They know that "Gen Z", still in "post college, pre life" mode, are not ready to move "that far out".

It's a case of "why spend all those taxpayer $$$" when there are projects "closer to the core" that can be fulfilled?

Dcell
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:14 pm

Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by Dcell » Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:01 am

Gil, I’ve seen the new concrete ties and rails that have been installed so far. Studies are completed before construction starts. Construction on the Lackawanna Cutoff extension started years ago. If money is being spent now for more studies, something is very very wrong.

NJRAILNUT
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:36 pm

Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by NJRAILNUT » Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:26 pm

Speaking as someone who lives right next to one of the few sections that was actually "completed" i.e. rails and concrete ties laid down (on one side of Brooklyn-Stanhope rd with the other side being totally cleared and ready for rails), they will have a TON of cleanup to do to get the ROW cleared out again. Between the tornado we had up here and subsequent severe weather over the past month, there is a large amount of downed trees all over the place. Big ones.

andrewjw
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Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by andrewjw » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:50 am

Gilbert B Norman wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:23 pm
Mr. Dcell, there are so many interests out there using our "furry and feathery friends" as "props" for their interests that Sussex County is not ready for development.

They know that "Gen Z", still in "post college, pre life" mode, are not ready to move "that far out".

It's a case of "why spend all those taxpayer $$$" when there are projects "closer to the core" that can be fulfilled?
Sorry, but as a member of "Gen Z" you are straight up wrong. For most people who graduate college, there is no "post college, pre life" mode where you live carefree on someone else's money, there is the struggle to pay for loans and bills. Where you are right is that Gen Z is not interested in living in Sussex County, not because they are "not ready to be far out" but because they do not want to be "far out" with hellish multi-hour commutes, no walkability, nothing to do besides work, sleep, television. The materialist GM & Levittown "American dream" that seduced the Boomers is not working on us.

rcthompson04
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:32 am

Re: Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Post by rcthompson04 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:56 pm

andrewjw wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:50 am
Gilbert B Norman wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:23 pm
Mr. Dcell, there are so many interests out there using our "furry and feathery friends" as "props" for their interests that Sussex County is not ready for development.

They know that "Gen Z", still in "post college, pre life" mode, are not ready to move "that far out".

It's a case of "why spend all those taxpayer $$$" when there are projects "closer to the core" that can be fulfilled?
Sorry, but as a member of "Gen Z" you are straight up wrong. For most people who graduate college, there is no "post college, pre life" mode where you live carefree on someone else's money, there is the struggle to pay for loans and bills. Where you are right is that Gen Z is not interested in living in Sussex County, not because they are "not ready to be far out" but because they do not want to be "far out" with hellish multi-hour commutes, no walkability, nothing to do besides work, sleep, television. The materialist GM & Levittown "American dream" that seduced the Boomers is not working on us.
I don't think the Boomers will ever get the concept of millennials and Gen Zers not wanting to move far out because of the hellish commutes. If places like Sussex County want to attract high income folks in the future they are going to have to get on board with aggressively pushing better commuter rail.

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