MLV EMU Procurement

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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by Hawaiitiki » Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:03 am

lensovet wrote:Thanks for the link. Amazing how all this guessing and armchair expertise was being debated in the other thread when apparently NJT laid out this entire strategy 4 years ago in a public document.

Makes sense though.
Fair enough, but if I had a nickle for how many times NJT's posted fleet strategies, wish lists, 10-20 year plans, or construction updates were complete BS by the time of (planned) implementation...I'd have a lot of nickles. At the very least what NJT tells the public or releases on their website or to the press, one must to take with a grain of salt.
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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by Fan Railer » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:27 am

https://www.njtransit.com/AdminTemp/12_ ... Agenda.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?
ITEM 1812-72: RAIL ROLLING STOCK PROGRAM: PURCHASE OF 113
MULTILEVEL III PASSENGER VEHICLES AND CONTRACT
AMENDMENT FOR ENGINEERING ASSISTANCE

WHEREAS, in 2006, NJ TRANSIT received its first delivery of 321 multilevel
vehicles (Multilevel I) and in 2010, ordered an additional 100 multilevel vehicles (Multilevel
II) to replace aging single-level rail coaches with state-of-the-art multilevel equipment; and

WHEREAS, NJ TRANSIT’s existing multilevel vehicles have enhanced the
comfort and quality of service for customers by providing 2x2 seating, larger seats and
windows, more legroom, and a smoother and quieter ride, and improved the reliability of
rail service wherever they are operated; and

WHEREAS, NJ TRANSIT’s Rail Fleet Strategy calls for the retirement of the
existing single-level, self-propelled Arrow III Electrical Multiple Unit (EMU) rail vehicle,
manufactured over 40 years ago, which is the next vehicle type in NJ TRANSIT’s fleet that
requires replacement; and

WHEREAS, NJ TRANSIT will replace the Arrow III vehicles with new multilevel
vehicles (Multilevel III Vehicles) which will provide an approximately 11 percent increase in
seating compared to the in-service Arrow III vehicles; and

WHEREAS, the purchase of 113 new Multilevel III Vehicles, consisting of 58 Power
Cars, 33 Cab Cars, 16 Trailer Cars and six (6) Restroom-equipped Trailer Cars, will allow
NJ TRANSIT to modernize and improve the versatility and reliability of the rail fleet; and

WHEREAS, the Multilevel III Vehicles will be compatible and interoperable with the
in-service multilevel vehicles to create self-propelled EMU trains, a single unified fleet that
can operate without locomotives, and can be configured based on customers’ needs; and

WHEREAS, the Multilevel III Vehicles will combine EMU and Push-Pull technology
to create a hybrid consist that has more redundancy and reliability with lower costs and
maintenance requirements; and

WHEREAS, the Multilevel III Vehicles will be equipped with Positive Train Control
(PTC) equipment, consistent with NJ TRANSIT’s focus on safety and to comply with the
latest federal regulations; and

WHEREAS, the Multilevel III Vehicles will provide operational flexibility for both
shorter trains that operate in low ridership areas as well as for longer trains that operate in
high-density areas, such as on the Northeast Corridor; and

WHEREAS, NJ TRANSIT customers will continue to benefit from the fleet reliability
of the multilevel vehicles by reducing the average age of NJ TRANSIT’s rolling stock fleet;
and

WHEREAS, the Multilevel III Vehicles will feature new customer amenities such as
USB ports, an infotainment system, LED lighting, power restroom doors, and video
surveillance system to enhance the customer experience; and

WHEREAS, upon completion of a competitive procurement process, it was
determined that Bombardier Transit Corporation of Bensalem, Pennsylvania, was the
most qualified responsive, responsible proposer; and

WHEREAS, the cost of the purchase for 113 Multilevel III Vehicles, including other
passenger amenities and spare parts, is $669,072,335, with 14 vehicle options to purchase
up to an additional 636 Multilevel III Vehicles (and an additional 250 Multilevel Vehicles
intended for SEPTA), which would be subject to future board authorization and when fully
exercised, would be for a total contract value of $3,612,861,685; and

WHEREAS, staff requires assistance for design and engineering associated with
the manufacture, testing and warranty support of the Multilevel III Vehicles; and

WHEREAS, LTK Engineering Services, Inc. was previously authorized by the
NJ TRANSIT Board of Directors to develop specifications for multilevel vehicles and to
support vendor selection activities through a multi-phase contract;

NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that the Chair or Executive Director is
authorized to contract with Bombardier Transit Corporation of Bensalem, Pennsylvania,
for the purchase of 113 Multilevel III Passenger Vehicles, including other passenger
amenities and spare parts, at a cost not to exceed $669,072,335, plus five percent for
contingencies, subject to the availability of funds; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Chair or Executive Director is authorized to
amend NJ TRANSIT Contract No. 05-078 with LTK Engineering Services, Inc. of Ambler,
Pennsylvania, for design and engineering assistance with the manufacture of the
Multilevel III Passenger Vehicles at a cost not to exceed $36,692,968, plus five percent
for contingencies, for a total contract authorization of $42,004,395, subject to the
availability of funds.

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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by DutchRailnut » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:47 pm

not sure if this link was posted yet : https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/co ... nnovation/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by lensovet » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:53 am

USB ports? By the time these cars roll off the line no one will be using USB-A anymore.

and honestly I shudder to think what the "infotainment" system is going to be. a TV blaring ads throughout your commute?
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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by RRspatch » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:25 am

DutchRailnut wrote:Hmm kind of like the MDDM of Dutch railroads ? a proven design .
https://www.flickr.com/photos/11057/8496561061" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yes, but those are low voltage DC trains which are a lot different from high voltage AC trains. Yes, DB, SBB and OBB do operate double decker EMU's under 15Kv 16/23Hz catenary but those cars are much higher than the NJT multi-level cars that need to fit into the Hudson River tunnels.

BTW - I believe I read somewhere that NS has cancelled plans to convert their system from 1500v DC to 25Kv 50Hz.
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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by Patrick Boylan » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:31 am

What's NS? I don't know of any electric trains Norfolk Southern runs.

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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by mtuandrew » Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:07 am

Patrick Boylan wrote:What's NS? I don't know of any electric trains Norfolk Southern runs.
Nederlandse Spoorwegen, the Netherlands State Railway system.

If we want to talk about low-clearance double-deck equipment under AC catenary as a model for NJT, we should at least be looking at some of the French RER equipment.

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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by bdawe » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:24 pm

mtuandrew wrote:
Patrick Boylan wrote:What's NS? I don't know of any electric trains Norfolk Southern runs.
Nederlandse Spoorwegen, the Netherlands State Railway system.

If we want to talk about low-clearance double-deck equipment under AC catenary as a model for NJT, we should at least be looking at some of the French RER equipment.
I was under the impression that the RER was built with full-height tunnels?
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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by Ryand-Smith » Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:27 pm

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wWG4GhScB ... e=youtu.be" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It’s happening, official video of the Multilevel III

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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by Backshophoss » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:17 pm

BBD's R&D nightmare is about to start,BIG TIME!
This might be the design to Drive BBD Bankrupt!
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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by Matt Johnson » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:06 am

Ah, so the power car doesn't have its own cabs and thus 3 cars is the min length? Makes me wonder about the future of the Princeton Dinky.

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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by lensovet » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:18 am

Matt Johnson wrote:Ah, so the power car doesn't have its own cabs and thus 3 cars is the min length? Makes me wonder about the future of the Princeton Dinky.
correct. sounds like a pretty certain death knell unless they plan to convert it to LRT.
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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by lensovet » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:24 am

having watched the video i have two main questions

- they are eliminating the second set of doors. so this high capacity car will have two tiny doors at the ends of the car. whatever schedule savings will be realized by having EMUs instead of locos will be completely destroyed by dwell times at stations.
- it is unclear to me whether the power cars will be compatible with any of the existing MLV cabs and trailers (aka MLVI and MLVII). does anyone know? it's suspiciously missing from all the videos and information posted so far.
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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by mtuandrew » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:00 am

That... looks remarkably like the concept picture I posted years ago, except I included the second set of doors and the cab, in exchange for a few less seats.

Mr. Borokhov: If these cars make up more than a third of the consist, they really will cause a big uptick in passenger loading dwell time, and I also don’t like that this thing needs two trailers to function independently. They couldn’t have shoehorned a cab into one end? As for the existing equipment, NJT swears up and down that these will be fully compatible - up to BBD to make that happen.

Mr. Dawe: the RER equipment is about 14’ 3” (about 4 1/2 meters?) The existing Alstom equipment is too slow for the Corridor, only 87 mph I think, but still an interesting body for future NEC-centered agency car orders if it can meet FRA Tier 1A crash regs.

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Re: MLV EMU Procurement

Post by DutchRailnut » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:54 am

from what I can see only the power car has missing doors, any of other cars would have same configuration as current locomotive hauled MLV's.
Only additional cab cars would need to be made so they can face either way in a consist, as current MLV's have to all face in same direction.
or are current MLV's already made to do this ??
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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