ALP-45-DP Usage/Service Patterns

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DutchRailnut
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Re: ALP-45-DP Usage/Service Patterns

Post by DutchRailnut » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:28 pm

I think its more like a ALP45DP uses 75% of what conventional diesel uses, as calculated by how much fuel per HP consumed.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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sixty-six

Re: ALP-45-DP Usage/Service Patterns

Post by sixty-six » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:48 pm

DutchRailnut wrote:I think its more like a ALP45DP uses 75% of what conventional diesel uses, as calculated by how much fuel per HP consumed.
No, it's not. Sirsonic would know.

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Re: ALP-45-DP Usage/Service Patterns

Post by ACeInTheHole » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:56 pm

Read the topic Dutch, it has been covered amply, two high speed engines vs. one low speed prime mover, combined with over 25 percent less fuel capacity vs. the Geeps is the culprit. The two engines are great for quick loading and acceleration, but forget it with fuel efficiency. The only reason that these engines can get by being so inefficient is that they are also electric locomotives in the same package. JT, not to argue you, but don't the Geeps have CAT HEP generators? Just playing a bit of devils advocate.

DutchRailnut
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Re: ALP-45-DP Usage/Service Patterns

Post by DutchRailnut » Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:33 pm

The EMD 645 and Cat HEP are surely not misers when it comes to fuel. reason for smaller tank on 45's is, they are only suppose to use diesel half the time.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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ACeInTheHole
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Re: ALP-45-DP Usage/Service Patterns

Post by ACeInTheHole » Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:39 pm

DutchRailnut wrote:The EMD 645 and Cat HEP are surely not misers when it comes to fuel. reason for smaller tank on 45's is, they are only suppose to use diesel half the time.
No, that is not it, fuel tanks any larger on the 45s would put them over the weight limit for 125 mph max operational speed on the NEC as per Amtrak ruling. As they are now, they are only about 7,000 pounds under said limit.

DutchRailnut
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Re: ALP-45-DP Usage/Service Patterns

Post by DutchRailnut » Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:51 pm

As always Beanbag I like your opinion, despite it not being anywhere near truth ..
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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sixty-six

Re: ALP-45-DP Usage/Service Patterns

Post by sixty-six » Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:28 pm

DutchRailnut wrote:The EMD 645 and Cat HEP are surely not misers when it comes to fuel. reason for smaller tank on 45's is, they are only suppose to use diesel half the time.
They're being used as straight diesels more often than not, and when being run as such, they use more fuel than any other diesel in the fleet.

ryanov
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Re: ALP-45-DP Usage/Service Patterns

Post by ryanov » Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:02 pm

No one said that was a good idea. Presumably you buy dual mode equipment to run in both modes.
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sixty-six

Re: ALP-45-DP Usage/Service Patterns

Post by sixty-six » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:43 am

ryanov wrote:No one said that was a good idea. Presumably you buy dual mode equipment to run in both modes.
If only NJT knew of every crippling storm before they ordered them...

Sirsonic
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Re: ALP-45-DP Usage/Service Patterns

Post by Sirsonic » Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:01 am

If I had meant the ALP-45s used 75% of the fuel I would have said that. The 45s use significantly MORE fuel to go the same distance with the same number of cars as a GP40-2 or even a PL42 (the PL42s also use more fuel than the geeps).
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ACeInTheHole
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Re: ALP-45-DP Usage/Service Patterns

Post by ACeInTheHole » Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:05 pm

They're still doing mode changes at Broad Street for anyone who missed nailing them. I just watched 4520 do it about half an hour ago.

25Hz
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Re: ALP-45-DP Usage/Service Patterns

Post by 25Hz » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:45 pm

Sirsonic wrote:If I had meant the ALP-45s used 75% of the fuel I would have said that. The 45s use significantly MORE fuel to go the same distance with the same number of cars as a GP40-2 or even a PL42 (the PL42s also use more fuel than the geeps).
The 45's have more horsepower total than the geeps, even with the HEP draw, so if they use more fuel, thats why. I have yet to see solid numbers anywhere except on a bombie spec sheet months ago that stated the fuel usage at idle is around 9 gallons per hour, not sure if thats per engine or total for both.
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ryanov
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Re: ALP-45-DP Usage/Service Patterns

Post by ryanov » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:12 am

sixty-six wrote:
ryanov wrote:No one said that was a good idea. Presumably you buy dual mode equipment to run in both modes.
If only NJT knew of every crippling storm before they ordered them...
Though they're being used more because of the storm now, I don't get the feeling their usage patterns are much different than they would have been.
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Jtgshu
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Re: ALP-45-DP Usage/Service Patterns

Post by Jtgshu » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:49 am

25Hz wrote:
Sirsonic wrote:If I had meant the ALP-45s used 75% of the fuel I would have said that. The 45s use significantly MORE fuel to go the same distance with the same number of cars as a GP40-2 or even a PL42 (the PL42s also use more fuel than the geeps).
The 45's have more horsepower total than the geeps, even with the HEP draw, so if they use more fuel, thats why. I have yet to see solid numbers anywhere except on a bombie spec sheet months ago that stated the fuel usage at idle is around 9 gallons per hour, not sure if thats per engine or total for both.
If that was the case, they would use the exact same amount of fuel as the PL42s then, because they have the same HP. But its not the case. Having one low speed engine (the EMD at around 900 RPM) compared to 2 medium speed engines, at 1800 RPM (or are they classified at medium speed and high speed? IM not sure) which do you think is going to use more fuel? Not to mention, the '45 has 24 cylinders, the '42 has 16. A Geep has 16 and 6 (for the HEP), but both are smaller displacement.

An engine working hard is going to use more fuel than an engine that isn't working that hard. The 2 CATs in the '45 work hard. The EMD doesn't work nearly as hard as often
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DutchRailnut
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Re: ALP-45-DP Usage/Service Patterns

Post by DutchRailnut » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:27 am

A High speed diesel should in theory be using about 1/2 th fuel at same HP and load
as Cylinder displacement is only 1/3 of medium speed EMD
the difference should also be, in fact EMD is two stroke so every cycle gets fuel, while Catepillar at twice speed is four stroke and only gets fuel injection every other stroke.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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