WoH Port Jervis Line Service, Studies, Work, Status

Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

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Lackawanna484

Post by Lackawanna484 » Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:39 pm

NIMBY problems in that area will make the Pascack Valley issues look like child's play. Some people have asked for a ban on auto traffic for certain days of the week, so trains won't get a free pass.

I'd put the odds of commuter rail on the Piermont Line at 50 to 1 in the next 20 years. And, the odds of a rail tunnel at the Tappan Zee at about a thousand to 1. The line would go through a major earthquake fault zone, too

JoeG

Post by JoeG » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:29 pm

To avoid NIMBY problems in Monsey, Nyack, Tarrytown, and wherever else I've forgotten to mention, perhaps the new Piermont line could be put in a tunnel all the way from Suffern to Tarrytown. Perhaps the tunnel could extend to Port Chester. No NIMBY problems, but --$30 billion? $40 billion? :-D

northjerseybuff
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Port Jervis Line rebuilding/upgrading questions

Post by northjerseybuff » Sat Mar 26, 2005 4:54 pm

I read a few years ago that Metro North was to upgrade the Port Jervis line a lot. For example all new track, upgrade stations, and most of all reconfigure the yard in Port Jervis. Has any of this happened or still suppose to happen?

DutchRailnut
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Post by DutchRailnut » Sat Mar 26, 2005 5:35 pm

Yes MNCR is doing welded rail and siugnal modifications.
the yard in Port Jervice is fairly modern and does not realy need upgrading, other than maybe more tracks.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Lackawanna484

Post by Lackawanna484 » Sat Mar 26, 2005 6:37 pm

Port Jervis line midday trains were bustituted off-and-on for several months in the Summer and Fall as new rail went in.

I'd guess they'll resume as the weather gets better.

nick11a
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Post by nick11a » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:59 am

Yes, they started working on it the day after labor day IIRC.
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R44 5212 A Train

Port Jervis Line Consists

Post by R44 5212 A Train » Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:48 pm

Why is it that NJT-labeled equipment always ends up on Port Jervis Line trains while MTA-labeled equipment ends up on Suffern locals, and sometimes even on Hackettstown trains? That shouldn't be. It seems that it's always like this. I live in Fair Lawn, so I see the Grade Crossing action all the time, and I've noticed this. It hasn't been so bad with the Comet Vs in service, but before they came this was really a problem. When I took a railfan trip to Port Jervis, I got S5109-1726-1702-4112N, about as NJT as you can get. I've been on Suffern locals many times, but once I got a consist of S5712-6763-6754-6772-6766-4133N, all MN-labeled equipment except the locomotive. What is up with that? Why can't NJT keep it's equipment straight? At the rate they're going, an MN car will end up into NYP! If MN-labeled cars always go everywhere except where they're supposed to like they do, why not label all cars for NJT? Something needs to be done about this ASAP, and MN-labeled cars only should be sent up to Port Jervis unless there is absolutely nothing else available.

roee
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Post by roee » Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:20 pm

I believe the reason is becauase they get rotated in for service. It's the same with ConnDOT trains runing on the Hudson Line, it is because they are going to Haromon, or have just had service there. Then it takes a bit of time to get them back to there home rails.
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MN Jim

Post by MN Jim » Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:24 pm

Because the service agreement between NJT and MNR does not require NJT to use MNR equipment in MNR territory. It permits NJT to use the equipment in a pool with their other equipment. I believe (but can't guarantee) that the last iteration of the service agreement makes NJT keep the cars on the Hoboken Division (they used to run all over, even down to Bay Head). The agreement encourages NJT to keep them on Port Jervis and Pascack Valley trains, but there is no REQUIREMENT that they do so.

I could be a bit off on the particulars, but basically, that's the reason.

Jim

R44 5212 A Train

Actually...

Post by R44 5212 A Train » Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:53 pm

"The Hoboken Division" means any train out of Hoboken. This also includes trains to Bay Head or Raritan. MN Comet Vs have run on the "Pony Express" to Monmouth Park.

Lackawanna484

Post by Lackawanna484 » Wed Apr 06, 2005 6:17 pm

NJT ran a "pure" MTA train on the Boonton Line a few weeks ago, I was on it.
MN engine, cab car, and four MTA coaches.

I think you're much more likely to see an all-MTA set than a pure NJT set of the same series Comet coaches.

MN Jim

Actually...

Post by MN Jim » Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:57 pm

R44 5212 A Train wrote:"The Hoboken Division" means any train out of Hoboken.
Not to the railroad, it doesn't. NJT has two divisions, the Hoboken Division and the Newark Division. The ex-Erie Lackawanna lines are Hoboken Division, and everything else is Newark Division. And the fact that an MNR Comet V was used on a NJCL (Newark Division) train doesn't change what I said - they're not supposed to use them on Newark Division trains. In practice, they do what they want.

Jim

Lackawanna484

Post by Lackawanna484 » Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:11 pm

Jim -

I recall an NJT manager telling me there's a true-up once a year to adjust miles owed to and by MetroNorth and NJT.

They calculate the mileage and train size required by the schedule and deadheads, and then calculate the actual mileage run by MN engines and cars on and off MetroNorth lines. MetroNorth and NJT then "settle up" as part of the process. Don't know if that's true, but it would seem to make sense.

Using MN equipment only on PJ and Pascack trains would prob require fewer cars and engines, but produce more rapid wearouts of equipment, I'd suspect. As it is, NJT usually ends up owing MetroNorth something on the equipment, which offsets some of what MN owes NJT for the staffing.


Paul

R44 5212 A Train

It's just kinda weird...

Post by R44 5212 A Train » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:16 pm

That the MTA-labeled cars go everywhere except where they're supposed to.

BTW, why not just label all cars for NJT then?

AMoreira81

Post by AMoreira81 » Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:58 am

The Authority needs to ID the cars that it owns readily. However, it also needs to make sure that NJT is only using those cars in Hoboken Division.

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