Metro North Train Stations: Additional or Unnecessary?

Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

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Noel Weaver
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Location: Pompano Beach, Florida

Holland Avenue

Post by Noel Weaver » Wed Sep 01, 2004 7:56 pm

Holland Avenue platform was located just south (east) of North White
Plains station. It was used as a point to change from electric to diesel
power for trains going past North White Plains station. It was only used
for north (east) bound trains.
Once the FL-9's were in use right through from New York to Brewster, the
use of Holland Avenue was no longer necessary and the trains stopped at
North White Plains instead.
Noel Weaver

AlM

Post by AlM » Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:29 pm

"there is no wrong railing on MNCR"

OK, fine. What is the correct term for "driving on the left"?

The tracks may all be nicely signaled for travel in both directions, but when a train proceeds on the left-most track for only a portion of its trip, it tends to slow things down when it crosses over. Therefore a term is needed.

Noel Weaver
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Noel Weaver

Post by Noel Weaver » Wed Sep 01, 2004 9:09 pm

No term is needed, on Metro-North, trains can run on any track at any time under any schedule or without a schedule on signal indication at normal track speeds consistant with their cab signal indication.
There is no remaining part of Metro-North where the track(s) are signaled
for operation in one direction.
There is NO such thing as right hand, left hand, wrong rail or anything
else regarding track assignments.
Noel Weaver
Last edited by Noel Weaver on Fri Sep 03, 2004 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AlM

Post by AlM » Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:50 pm

"No term is need, on Metro-North, trains can run on any track at any time
under any schedule or without a schedule on signal indication at normal
track speeds consistant with their cab signal indication. "

Yes, a term is needed, because when a train travels first on the right-most track, then crosses over to the left-most track, then crosses back over to the right-most track, it blocks trains coming in the opposite direction for a few minutes while crossing over. When this is done during rush hour, trains end up significantly behind schedule.

I've observed this phenomenon on the Harlem Line several times during recent rush hours, and am wondering why it was happening. It also happens every day at Woodlawn, where it often puts a northbound Harlem Line train 5 minutes behind schedule.

If there's no phrase for the phenomenon, then a whole paragraph is needed to describe a repeatedly occurring situation that causes serious congestion.

UpperHarlemLine4ever
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Location: N White Plains, NY

Post by UpperHarlemLine4ever » Sat Sep 04, 2004 1:28 am

Know this is getting a bit off base when the topic is "unnecessary railroad stations" but it's still wrong railing when you are going opposite the normal direction of travel which would be track 1 or 3 heading from Grand Central and 2 or 4 heading to Grand Central.

And just a bit of information, except on the Hudson and Harlem Lines, railroad trains in the US traveling north and east are even numbered trains and trains going south and west are odd numbered trains. The Hudson and Harlem Line trains are considered going West when they are northbound from Grand Central and are accordingly numbered odd numbered and trains going to Grand Central are considered going East and are numbered with even numbers. So a train heading north from North White Plains would be considered going West and would be odd numbered.

DutchRailnut
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Post by DutchRailnut » Sat Sep 04, 2004 7:04 am

the Hudson line and Harlem line are north south so are New Haven branch lines.
the NEC from Washington to Boston is east/west.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

Retired Triebfahrzeugführer. I am not a moderator.

Lackawanna484

Re: Holland Avenue

Post by Lackawanna484 » Sat Sep 04, 2004 9:28 am

Noel Weaver wrote:Holland Avenue platform was located just south (east) of North White
Plains station. It was used as a point to change from electric to diesel
power for trains going past North White Plains station. It was only used
for north (east) bound trains.
Once the FL-9's were in use right through from New York to Brewster, the
use of Holland Avenue was no longer necessary and the trains stopped at
North White Plains instead.
Noel Weaver
-----------------------

Railfan & Railroad mag had a fairly detailed article about NWP & Holland Avenue in the era of steam. Several maps, and a schedule from the 1940s, IIRC. Within the past year.

Looked like an interesting place

UpperHarlemLine4ever
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Location: N White Plains, NY

Post by UpperHarlemLine4ever » Sat Sep 04, 2004 1:38 pm

Jaap, I have to disagree with you. MetroNorth on the Harlem and Hudson line continue the New York Central's numbering of trains based on the east/west operation of trains from New York to Chicago. Therefore a northbound Hudson or Harlem Line train is designated with an odd number and a southbound train on these lines is designated with an even number. The converse is true on New Haven line. Northbound NH line trains are even numbered and southbound odd numbered. Check it out. Sorry foks to digress.

DutchRailnut
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Location: released from Stalag 13

Post by DutchRailnut » Sat Sep 04, 2004 2:19 pm

There is no North bound on New Haven line., and if you like to question the Metro North, Conrail, And Penn central typetables please take it up with MNCR.

Current employee timetable says:
page 8 Milepost from New York to Division post CSX is Northbound(for Hudson line)
Page 13 The direction from CP5 to Wassaic is Northward(for Harlem line)
Page 16 the direction from CP58 to Division post (housatonic railroad) is easward(for Beacon line)
Page 17 the direction from CP112 to Division post(amtrak) is eastward(for New Haven line)
page 21 the Direction from Stamford to New Canaan is eastward(new Canaan branch)
Page 22 the diection from CP241 to Division post(housatonic Railroad) is Northward(for Danbury branch)
page 24 the direction from CP261 to Division post(sprinfield terminal) is northward(for waterbury branch)
so lets go by official directions not by what you believe to be right.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

Retired Triebfahrzeugführer. I am not a moderator.

UpperHarlemLine4ever
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Location: N White Plains, NY

Post by UpperHarlemLine4ever » Sun Sep 05, 2004 10:18 pm

I beg to differ with you, this designation of trains goes all the way back to the New York Central days. A southbound train on the Hudson or Harlem line is officially an eastbound train and accordingly given a even number and northbound is westbound and therefore given a odd number. New Haven Line trains are north/south and therefore northbound trains are even numbered and southbound odd numbered. You're wrong and that's all I've got to say about it. Nationwide a northbound/eastbound train is given and even number and a southbound/westbound train is given an odd number. Can't you ever admit you're not always right. Check out the history of the railroad as I have.

DutchRailnut
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:02 pm
Location: released from Stalag 13

Post by DutchRailnut » Mon Sep 06, 2004 7:12 am

Then how does a train like Amtrak 49 keep its nortbound number from New York Northbound to westbound past Albany. your the one thats confused, the 20th century limited did not change train numbers while traveling from New York to Chicago right ???
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

Retired Triebfahrzeugführer. I am not a moderator.

UpperHarlemLine4ever
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Location: N White Plains, NY

Post by UpperHarlemLine4ever » Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:16 pm

You've proved my point. 49 is a westbound move, 48 an eastbound move. That's why trains on the Harlem and Hudson are odd numbers heading northbound and even numbers heading southbound. If they weren't they'd be even numbered going out of Grand Central and Odd numbered coming into Grand Central. You're obviously the one who is confused. I've got my facts straight. But you know what, lets just end this. This is supposed to be about "Unnecessary Stations" not train numbers.

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Otto Vondrak
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Post by Otto Vondrak » Mon Sep 06, 2004 3:51 pm

Article on North White Plains was Railfan, December 2002: http://index.mrmag.com/tm.exe?opt=I&MAG ... t=3&sort=A

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Noel Weaver
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Location: Pompano Beach, Florida

Directions

Post by Noel Weaver » Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:13 am

Modern day - from the current Metro-North timetable
"the direction from New York to Division Post (CSX) is northward.
The directions were changed but the track numbers and train numbers
were never changed.
I don't recall exactly when the direction change took place but it seems to
me that Metro-North made the change, probably upon takeover or quite
soon after.
Noel Weaver

Union Tpke
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Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:22 pm

Re: Lost Station

Post by Union Tpke » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:35 am

Noel Weaver wrote:Two other lost stations on the Harlem; one at Claremont Parkway which I
believe was about 172nd Street and at 183rd Street. Morrisiana and
183rd Street closed about the same time and I think it was in the Penn
Central era but I would have to check to be sure of it. Clarement
Parkway was closed some years earlier. Seems to me that Wakefield was
on that cut list but the powers to be had second thoughts and decided to
keep it. Understand Wakefield is quite busy these days.
Noel Weaver
I know that this is old, but do you know anything else about the plan to discontinue service at Wakefield?

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