Greenwich Station Replacement

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Jeff Smith
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Greenwich Station Replacement

Post by Jeff Smith » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:25 pm

Greenwich Sentinel: Town Unveils Plans to Redevelop Greenwich Train Station, Movie Theater
...
Plans include the redevelopment and construction of a new modern transportation center, including the development of an entirely new train station to replace the existing train station on the north side of the tracks; a new train station on the south side of the tracks; expanded and improved drop-off and pick-up areas for both stations; new pedestrian and commuter pathways; a new privately-owned public park on the corner of Greenwich Avenue and Railroad Avenue; new luxury movie theaters above the existing parking lot on Railroad Avenue; and modernized retail space along Railroad Avenue.
...
Richard Andreski, Bureau Chief of Public Transportation from the Connecticut Department of Transportation, said the current Greenwich station serves 40,000 people per day. He added that the New Haven Line is the busiest rail line in the United States, with over 130,000 travelers per day.
...
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EuroStar
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Re: Greenwich Station Replacement

Post by EuroStar » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:09 am

Did they mean 4,000 people per day for the station? 40,000 would require more than half the town to get on the train every day ...

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Re: Greenwich Station Replacement

Post by Jeff Smith » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:34 pm

Yeah I thought that was a crooked number too.
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Re: Greenwich Station Replacement

Post by Ridgefielder » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:53 am

Jeff Smith wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:34 pm
Yeah I thought that was a crooked number too.
I don't think the 40,000 number is a misprint.

For one thing, the layout of the road network means that there are plenty of folks in Bedford, Pound Ridge, Armonk, and even North Stamford for whom Greenwich is the most convenient station. Especially now that some of the trains that used to run express between Stamford and GCT make a Greenwich stop.

More importantly, Greenwich itself is a pretty major financial and corporate center. There are plenty of people who commute to there by train, both reverse from the city and lower Westchester and from towns farther out the New Haven Line. I'm willing to bet that the traffic on an average weekday rush hour is only split 70/30 or even 60/40 in peak direction.

By no means is everyone going through the Greenwich station on a given day a resident of Greenwich.

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Re: Greenwich Station Replacement

Post by Erie-Lackawanna » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:35 pm

In 2018, the number of average weekday boardings at Greenwich was about 4,000. That's boardings; if you want to know total ridership in the station, assume everyone who boarded eventually debarked there as well, so double the number. Roughly 8,000 pairs of feet traverse the station on their way to or from a train at Greenwich station on an average weekday.

The station ranks 10th among all Metro-North stations not including Grand Central Terminal.

Jim

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Re: Greenwich Station Replacement

Post by mkm4 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:35 pm

They fixed the article:
Richard Andreski, Bureau Chief of Public Transportation from the Connecticut Department of Transportation, said the current Greenwich station serves 4,000 people per day. He added that the New Haven Line is the busiest rail line in the United States, with over 130,000 travelers per day.

Ridgefielder
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Re: Greenwich Station Replacement

Post by Ridgefielder » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:32 pm

Erie-Lackawanna wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:35 pm
In 2018, the number of average weekday boardings at Greenwich was about 4,000. That's boardings; if you want to know total ridership in the station, assume everyone who boarded eventually debarked there as well, so double the number. Roughly 8,000 pairs of feet traverse the station on their way to or from a train at Greenwich station on an average weekday.

The station ranks 10th among all Metro-North stations not including Grand Central Terminal.

Jim
Well there goes my elaborate reasoning! :-D

Doesn't surprise me that it's in the Top 10 in terms of traffic. Also doesn't surprise me that they're looking to replace it. The current building-- from the early 1980's?-- is pretty awful.

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Re: Greenwich Station Replacement

Post by SeanW » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:00 pm

1970 actually. That means it was designed and construction began in the 1960s. I do not agree with the current building being awful, but then again I do have a massive soft-spot for mid-century interior design.

Two questions now pop to mind if anyone can help:

1) How long might it take for the demolition/construction to start?
2) Railroad history moved very quickly back then - Penn Central, who opened the station, was only created in '68 and it only took over the New Haven in '69, how did they go from that to completely rebuilding the station in time for their bankruptcy in mid-1970? I know they made a deal with some property company and that took care of the finance, but how about design and construction? Did they pre-plan the design long before? Or did they just not have to worry about building permits and the like?

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Re: Greenwich Station Replacement

Post by MACTRAXX » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:14 pm

SW: By 1970 the MTA and CDOT were already involved in the New Haven Line...

Greenwich Station was part of infrastructure improvements and upgrades to the former New Haven Railroad
over the course of the first half of the 1970s which included high level platforms at all New Haven Line
electrified territory stations along with the 244 (144+100 add-on) M2 MU car fleet.

Penn Central (and later Conrail) was basically a contract operator of the New Haven Line for both the
MTA and CDOT. In PC's precarious financial position post bankruptcy they could little afford commuter
services such as the Metropolitan Region on their own without subsidies.

The Penn Central (and later Conrail) "Metropolitan Region" would eventually become the Metro North
Commuter Railroad in 1983.

MACTRAXX
EXPRESS TRAIN TO NEW YORK PENN STATION-NO JAMAICA ON THIS TRAIN-PLEASE STAND CLEAR OF THE CLOSING TRAIN DOORS

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Re: Greenwich Station Replacement

Post by Jeff Smith » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:55 pm

I worked right across the street at 55 Railroad for a German holding company in 1997-98. The station was functional then nothing major I remember. Always busy nothing remarkable. Great little area around it. A small cafe/diner type place for breakfast and lunch (or was it a deli? It was 22 years ago!). And a great little pub “The Station House.” They ended up losing their lease it was a damn shame. Last night open we were dancing on the tables to Billy Idol’s Mony Mony! Nice Japanese place on Greenwich Ave “Abis”. Back to the station it was functional but not many if any amenities. Busy station. We tend to mock the commuters demands there but they really should be some type of a priority service there I.e. an express or semi express stop.
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Re: Greenwich Station Replacement

Post by Ridgefielder » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:03 pm

Jeff Smith wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:55 pm
I worked right across the street at 55 Railroad for a German holding company in 1997-98. The station was functional then nothing major I remember. Always busy nothing remarkable. Great little area around it. A small cafe/diner type place for breakfast and lunch (or was it a deli? It was 22 years ago!). And a great little pub “The Station House.” They ended up losing their lease it was a damn shame. Last night open we were dancing on the tables to Billy Idol’s Mony Mony! Nice Japanese place on Greenwich Ave “Abis”. Back to the station it was functional but not many if any amenities. Busy station. We tend to mock the commuters demands there but they really should be some type of a priority service there I.e. an express or semi express stop.
Oddly enough I worked right across the tracks at One Greenwich Plaza at the exact same time. Remember that bar quite well. It's long gone, but the Plaza Restaurant, the cafe, is still there-- figure they must own the building, otherwise they'd have been priced out long ago.

The station is probably 2x or 3x busier today than it was in the late '90s. It actually is a semi-express stop now, but that's mostly at rush hour.

I've got nothing against mid-century design in general. But Greenwich station isn't exactly a highlight. It's more like a literally concrete representative of the depressing Penn Central/Conrail era of New York commuter rail. Brown tile floors, brown brick walls, acoustic tile ceiling with flickering florescent lights...

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Re: Greenwich Station Replacement

Post by Jeff Smith » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:26 pm

I know the building well. It will be good to have a station on the east/outbound side. Probably much more intra-CT commute now than 20 some odd years ago. I'm sure it's much busier. Too bad they can't throw a siding in there for a stub-end track. It will be even busier with the alluded to Penn Access. Honestly, they could use that reverse commute now from the East Bronx, sans the Penn connection.

I was living in Danbury at the time I worked there; I used the train on occasion for that commute; I'm sure with more service now it's very convenient. That's the future of the NH line in CT if you ask me; it's not so much the commute into the city (which will continue to grow, and why they need multilevels). The real growth will be intrastate, and reverse peak, because that's where the capacity is.

Glad to hear that diner is still there.
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Re: Greenwich Station Replacement

Post by daybeers » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:58 am

Jeff Smith wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:26 pm
I was living in Danbury at the time I worked there; I used the train on occasion for that commute; I'm sure with more service now it's very convenient. That's the future of the NH line in CT if you ask me; it's not so much the commute into the city (which will continue to grow, and why they need multilevels). The real growth will be intrastate, and reverse peak, because that's where the capacity is.
I agree about intrastate and reverse peak travel, in addition to non-commuter travel. I fear the fares are nearing the breaking point for most people, however. Maybe not in Fairfield County, but otherwise yes. Very different from the new Hartford Line. I haven't heard someone suggest multilevels for the New Haven Line before: interesting!

RearOfSignal
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Re: Greenwich Station Replacement

Post by RearOfSignal » Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:44 am

It would be helpful to have two island platforms at Greenwich rather than the two side platforms, but really don’t think that can happen.
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Re: Greenwich Station Replacement

Post by DutchRailnut » Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:54 pm

you on weed ?? island platforms, you know what would be involved including bridges ?? again you on weed ???\
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