Giulietti: Bar Cars Not Likely

Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

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NH2060
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Giulietti: Bar Cars Not Likely

Post by NH2060 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:36 am

It’s about time someone at the top said “NO”.
“As the president of Metro-North Railroad, I was not in favor of the bar cars,” Giulietti said.
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Re: Giulietti: Bar Cars Not Likely

Post by GirlOnTheTrain » Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:05 am

I get that people have memories attached and so forth, but how hard is it to buy a beer at Grand Central? I can think of four venues off the top of my head...not to mention that they dissolved the commissary department.

I second that your statement. Hopefully now that Giuletti said no, we can stop beating that dead horse.
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radioman2001
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Re: Giulietti: Bar Cars Not Likely

Post by radioman2001 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:38 am

The whole thing is liability, as MNRR has much deeper pockets than any vendor in GCT, and that's what a lawyer will go after. Reverse the letters of MTA and what do you get?

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Re: Giulietti: Bar Cars Not Likely

Post by GirlOnTheTrain » Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:25 pm

But of course! You don't have to tell me twice :)
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TCurtin
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Re: Giulietti: Bar Cars Not Likely

Post by TCurtin » Sat May 04, 2019 1:56 pm

"NO" would be a dumb move. Bar cars in their subtle way contributed a lot to commuter morale and to their overall estimation of the service.

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Re: Giulietti: Bar Cars Not Likely

Post by Wayside » Sat May 04, 2019 3:11 pm

I don't think there's a budget line item for commuter morale.
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Re: Giulietti: Bar Cars Not Likely

Post by Train322 » Sat May 04, 2019 6:40 pm

If a private company wanted to pay the $3.8m for a M8 rail car, I am sure Metro-North would accept the gift - as a bar car.
Just an idea - wrap it in a ad for a liquor company if that company spent the $3.8m for the car.

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Re: Giulietti: Bar Cars Not Likely

Post by njt/mnrrbuff » Sun May 05, 2019 7:58 am

MNR and CDOT are not in the business to provide bar cars to the New Haven Line trains. If a person wants to grab a drink for their 60 plus journey home, they have options at Grand Central Terminal. For those people who want to purchase a drink onboard a train and are traveling between NYC and New Haven, I have a few words and this applies to people who might be heading to New Rochelle, Stamford, Bridgeport, or New Haven-take Amtrak.

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Re: Giulietti: Bar Cars Not Likely

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Sun May 05, 2019 5:24 pm

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:MNR and CDOT are not in the business to provide bar cars to the New Haven Line trains.
It is interesting to note that the 20 bar cars delivered in early 1974 were federally funded as part of the 144 car base M-2 order. NJDOT also used public funds (state transportation bonds) for its 10 Comet I bar cars in 1970.

Has policy changed so that public funding can no longer be used for bar cars and other luxury items?
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Re: Giulietti: Bar Cars Not Likely

Post by CRail » Sun May 05, 2019 7:07 pm

Wayside wrote:I don't think there's a budget line item for commuter morale.
That's pretty lousy, then. Why even provide a service if you'll do nothing to make people want to use it?

In this age of environmental responsibility, we're supposed to be luring people out of their automobiles and into alternative transportation, like electric trains! It's way beyond time for us to break away from this over-litigious society robbing us of anything that isn't serious and invalidate the puritanical mindset it brought out that if you can enjoy something it's superfluous. There are very real advantages to serving refreshments on board such as curbing anxiety caused by delays and not being able to find a seat. For a lot of people, the train ride in and home is a social event, which to those people is a very important aspect of their commute. This not only aids that camaraderie but encourages it, and in this divisive social climate we're in, anything that encourages camaraderie needs to be embraced. Providing club car service was not the "core business" of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford railroad either, nor was providing passenger service at all for that matter, but it was the business of getting people into their trains and keeping them satisfied while they were there. If the for profit company found it viable to provide on board refreshments to its commuting passengers, it certainly is viable for the public service to provide what the public that it serves is asking for.
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Train322
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Re: Giulietti: Bar Cars Not Likely

Post by Train322 » Sun May 05, 2019 7:27 pm

Not completely sure but I don't think it is possible to purchase an Amtrak ticket between Bridgeport and NY Penn. At least, it used to not be possible.

I would think that if a bar car or a food service car was economically feasible, (assume someone is willing to pay $3.8m for a rail car) they would provide the service.
Obviously, it is not economically feasible. It is, however, economically to have a foot court at Grand Central as well as other minor food/beverage offerings at other stations.

The one difference that Metro-North (and LIRR, NJT)has versus other commuter lines is that many of the routes are long, over fifty miles. That creates the possibility to offer services that other commuter railroads don't. Those services would be offered if they were profitable and the best use of capital. Obviously, additional capacity is critical now because ridership is very strong so it does not make sense to invest in a rail car that does not max out on seats.

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Re: Giulietti: Bar Cars Not Likely

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Sun May 05, 2019 8:02 pm

Train322 wrote:I would think that if a bar car or a food service car was economically feasible, (assume someone is willing to pay $3.8m for a rail car) they would provide the service.
Obviously, it is not economically feasible.
Then farm out to a private contractor like the Downeaster (which has been praised for service and quality). The Staten Island Ferry has a full service lunch counter (for a 25 minute ride) on board, it is a private concession under contract with NYCDOT with decent prices.
Train322 wrote:The one difference that Metro-North (and LIRR, NJT)has versus other commuter lines is that many of the routes are long, over fifty miles. That creates the possibility to offer services that other commuter railroads don't.
I see with the Hamptons service to Montauk (116 miles) with on board bar service. But the Port Jervis Line (95 miles) didn't have bar service even with new NJDOT Comets in 1970. The bar cars were assigned to Bergen County, Boonton Line and M&E. Even the South Shore Line (90 miles Chicago-South Bend) has no on board concession service, same for the Keystone and Hiawatha.
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Re: Giulietti: Bar Cars Not Likely

Post by DutchRailnut » Sun May 05, 2019 8:07 pm

lets see Metro North says no, CDOT commissioner says no , yet buffs keep fantasizing over a non workable issue ?? really go dream about boy or girl you want to ............................
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Re: Giulietti: Bar Cars Not Likely

Post by GirlOnTheTrain » Sun May 05, 2019 10:13 pm

Train322 wrote:Not completely sure but I don't think it is possible to purchase an Amtrak ticket between Bridgeport and NY Penn. At least, it used to not be possible.
$33 value fare for most trains a few weeks out.
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Re: Giulietti: Bar Cars Not Likely

Post by Backshophoss » Mon May 06, 2019 1:15 am

Does NY State and Conn have a "server responsibility" law on the books? ie Server is held responsible for a DWI passenger after getting off the train,then,
driving a car and caught by local PD? or for "overserving" that passenger.
If there's such a law,Then MN is covering their butts by not allowing the Bar Cars,otherwise the Legal Beagles better have access to Bank to
cover all the costs of lawsuits!
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