Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

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NH2060
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by NH2060 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:57 am

I'm sure right now the MTA are thinking "We'll have proof that this is a waste of money and we don't have to spend a dime" :wink:

NIMBYkiller
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by NIMBYkiller » Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:45 pm

In terms of service to GCT, this will provide no benefit beyond what currently exists. What it will do, however, is create an alternative for CT residents traveling to jobs along the Harlem Line, particularly in White Plains. The 684/84 interchange consistently backs up for miles (to the point where it's faster to just go to 202 and then get onto 84), as does 84 near the state line.

Jeff Smith
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by Jeff Smith » Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:21 am

Having lived in D'Bury, that was always my thought. CT has shown a willingness to spend on rail, but I'd rather see other services first, such as an extension to New Milford, or instra-state service Waterbury to New Haven, or Hartford, and a permanent Devon Transfer. Even New London service north.
Next stop, Willoughby
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Backshophoss
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by Backshophoss » Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:14 pm

A branch service to Hopewell Jct is still possible,after raising the roadbed to match that raised bridge.
Untill HRRC is evicted from the Maybrook line,MN/ConnDOT can never reach New Milford.
The Land of Enchantment is not Flyover country!

DutchRailnut
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by DutchRailnut » Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:37 pm

unless we are in a communist country evicting a owner is not easy.
eminent domain is option, but is not really a favor if argued in court, as state refused to buy that part from Conrail.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Jeff Smith
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by Jeff Smith » Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:50 am

MassDOT was able to buy their portion from HRRC. CtDOT owns above New Milford to State Line. West of Danbury is OOS with zero customers. But Jaap has a point; given the relationship between CtDOT, MNRR, and HRRC, it would be rough, especially since CT is broke. Still, to me, it's the one service extension that makes sense and is relatively feasible. Any extension to Southeast will cost a ton given the funds necessary to return that branch to a state of good repair for passenger service.
Next stop, Willoughby
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J.D. Lang
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by J.D. Lang » Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:01 am

I would think that HRRC would be more than willing to sell to the state of CT. if: 1)They retain exclusive freight rights; 2)The state upgrades the tracks for passenger service. Look at the sweet deal that they got in MA. Something like 7 mil. in their pockets and many millions more for upgrading the tracks.
J. Lang

DutchRailnut
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by DutchRailnut » Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:49 pm

Last I heard was only way CDOT gets to run on HRRC is, if they buy the entire railroad at fair market value plus 5 years of last earnings.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

Retired Triebfahrzeugführer. I am not a moderator.

Backshophoss
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by Backshophoss » Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:19 pm

HRRC has been a piss poor steward of their lines,ConnDOT gave them supplies and $$$$$$$ for track repairs,with ZERO results shown.
they have done NOTHING except needed track work to keep it at class 1,barely allows P&W access to Danbury, and works against the greater
good of all of the neighboring RR's
The Land of Enchantment is not Flyover country!

Hoghead
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by Hoghead » Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:52 am

Once again another arm chair quarterback that speaks without knowing anything apparently! Before you post check your facts and learn the fine details involved. CT is the problem always has and there is no end in site.

CTRailfan
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by CTRailfan » Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:54 pm

Jeff Smith wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:21 am
Having lived in D'Bury, that was always my thought. CT has shown a willingness to spend on rail, but I'd rather see other services first, such as an extension to New Milford, or instra-state service Waterbury to New Haven, or Hartford, and a permanent Devon Transfer. Even New London service north.
Yes, we have a huge backlog of projects on mostly existing lines, or modest extensions of existing lines (like the New Milford extension that runs into HRRC). There are a number of missing stations, stations that need rebuilding, and heck, I'd electrify Danbury before I'd build a line from Danbury to Southeast.

The whole concept of building from Danbury to Southeast is also misguided, as a good portion of that traffic from CT are people who live out in the exurbs in places like New Fairfield and Ridgefield and wouldn't go to Danbury anyway. Improving Danbury service for people in Danbury and along the line is the better plan.

Waterbury-New Haven service is an interesting idea. A permanent Devon Transfer would allow some trains to take that route, as well as connections from Waterbury Line trains that end at Devon Transfer to New Haven Line trains to New Haven. That combined with the Barnum station in Bridgeport would add more Metro-North and Amtrak service to those areas, as well as de-congest that whole section of railroad. All much more affordable and much higher priority than this crazy Danbury-Southeast idea.
DutchRailnut wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:49 pm
Last I heard was only way CDOT gets to run on HRRC is, if they buy the entire railroad at fair market value plus 5 years of last earnings.
Time to start eminent domain proceedings. While HRRC is making life miserable for everyone else involved with them, G&W/P&W/CSOR/NECR has been rebuilding and improving rail lines like crazy.

DutchRailnut
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by DutchRailnut » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:42 am

you loose eminent domain procedures cause Connecticut turned down purchasing from Conrail in mid 90's
after Connecticut refused it, the HRRC by way of Danbury Terminal railroad closed the loophole for former employees . than fixed railroad.
now using eminent domain would equal to Communist nationalizing private industry.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

Retired Triebfahrzeugführer. I am not a moderator.

Ridgefielder
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by Ridgefielder » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:31 pm

DutchRailnut wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:42 am
you loose eminent domain procedures cause Connecticut turned down purchasing from Conrail in mid 90's
after Connecticut refused it, the HRRC by way of Danbury Terminal railroad closed the loophole for former employees . than fixed railroad.
now using eminent domain would equal to Communist nationalizing private industry.
The better course at this point, unfortunately, is to let HRRC stumble along until they finally are up against a wall, $-wise, and are forced to seek a buyout from either the State or P&W/GNW. It will happen some day soon if things remain as they are...

CTRailfan
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by CTRailfan » Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:01 pm

DutchRailnut wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:42 am
you loose eminent domain procedures cause Connecticut turned down purchasing from Conrail in mid 90's
after Connecticut refused it, the HRRC by way of Danbury Terminal railroad closed the loophole for former employees . than fixed railroad.
now using eminent domain would equal to Communist nationalizing private industry.
Eminent Domain is not Communism. Presumably a private freight operator (G&W?) would still operate freight. Also, Eminent Domain only ever goes through with an irrational property owner, a rational property owner will cut a deal for a premium over market with the government entity trying to buy it, which saves the government money versus the legal process for Eminent Domain, and property owner walks away making more profit.

DutchRailnut
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Re: Harlem Line Extension To Danbury?

Post by DutchRailnut » Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:11 am

a rational government would not have turned down the offer from Conrail.
A private owner is never going to give up control of his center section to be dispatched by another railroad.
And Metro North would never let HRRC dispatchers get in mix of their commuter operation.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

Retired Triebfahrzeugführer. I am not a moderator.

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