3rd Track for White Plains

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UpperHarlemLine4ever
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Location: N White Plains, NY

Re: 3rd Track for White Plains

Post by UpperHarlemLine4ever » Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:42 pm

Additionally, all the land abutting the railroad right of way is public land, ie Scarsdale (incidentally, parking lot south of the train station, which is Eastchester's was leased to them by the railroad). So is the land in WP public land.

TCurtin
Posts: 342
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:12 am

Re: 3rd Track for White Plains

Post by TCurtin » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:14 am

More details on that matter

1. Yes the ROW is 4 tracks wide all the way to NWP.

2. There were once 3 tracks in White Plains station (the pre-high platform station, not the one there now). The third track was on the northbound side. I have heard people swear up and down on this forum that there were four but I have been told (years ago) by multiple NYC men that there were never four, only three. That third track went all the way to NWP. It was gone by the 60s, I don't know more details than that. The third track did remain for some distance south from NWP and I recall it being used for pickup and setout of strings of freight cars

3. There were four (Two middle sidings) at Crestwood. One continued north about a mile beyond Crestwood. I personally remember those being there in the 60s.


4. When the third track was put in north from Mt. Vernon west,for some strange reason they did not use the previously graded ROW and the pre-existing bridge abutments crossing the Bronx River south of Bronxville. I never understood why.

Sure, it's possible -- at least engineering-wise -- to add more track anywhere in there, but a monumental and costly project to be sure!!

Backshophoss
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Re: 3rd Track for White Plains

Post by Backshophoss » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:14 pm

The track was in an elevated fill thru downtown White Plains as was White Plains station,there may have been 3 tracks before the elevated fill
was built,but that option is now long gone.
The redevelopment of Downtown White Plains has seen to that!
As I remember it,It was always 2 tracks from CP Scar to east end of NW Tower limits,
center track was used for staging power swaps at North White Plains and a switch lead for the yard between the 2 mains at NW.
The Land of Enchantment is not Flyover country!

Ridgefielder
Posts: 2706
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:22 pm
Location: Harlem Division MP 15

Re: 3rd Track for White Plains

Post by Ridgefielder » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:09 pm

Actually I don't think there were pre-graded abutments at the Bronx River bridge north of Midland Avenue.

The 2-track bridge is an absolutely antique stone-arch structure that dates from the 1870's double-tracking of the New York & Harlem. The date's carved on the keystone- I'll take a picture at some point (there's a public footpath that crosses under the bridge by the river.) I'm guessing the NYC didn't bother touching it when they widened the ROW in the 1910's since it was reasonably new at that point & they figured they'd come back and deal with it later.

Amtrak67 of America
Posts: 244
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:42 am
Location: Bucks County Pa

Re: 3rd Track for White Plains

Post by Amtrak67 of America » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:50 am

TCurtin wrote:More details on that matter

1. Yes the ROW is 4 tracks wide all the way to NWP.

2. There were once 3 tracks in White Plains station (the pre-high platform station, not the one there now). The third track was on the northbound side. I have heard people swear up and down on this forum that there were four but I have been told (years ago) by multiple NYC men that there were never four, only three. That third track went all the way to NWP. It was gone by the 60s, I don't know more details than that. The third track did remain for some distance south from NWP and I recall it being used for pickup and setout of strings of freight cars

3. There were four (Two middle sidings) at Crestwood. One continued north about a mile beyond Crestwood. I personally remember those being there in the 60s.


4. When the third track was put in north from Mt. Vernon west,for some strange reason they did not use the previously graded ROW and the pre-existing bridge abutments crossing the Bronx River south of Bronxville. I never understood why.

Sure, it's possible -- at least engineering-wise -- to add more track anywhere in there, but a monumental and costly project to be sure!!
The row is NOT 4 tracks wide all the way to NWP because if it was how would you explain the tightness of space at Scarsdale ?
If there's a steady paycheck in it, I'll believe anything you say.
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Ridgefielder
Posts: 2706
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:22 pm
Location: Harlem Division MP 15

Re: 3rd Track for White Plains

Post by Ridgefielder » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:32 pm

The NB platform at Scarsdale is built on what would be the trackway for the 3rd & 4th tracks. You can see that pretty clearly in this satellite view. https://goo.gl/maps/tuun5XRH5KF2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

UpperHarlemLine4ever
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Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:29 am
Location: N White Plains, NY

Re: 3rd Track for White Plains

Post by UpperHarlemLine4ever » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:18 pm

Photo shows how NB platform at Scarsdale is pushed all the way out with space for trackways to the right. Still exists this way today.[attachment=0]Scarsdale.jpg[/attachment]
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Amtrak67 of America
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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:42 am
Location: Bucks County Pa

Re: 3rd Track for White Plains

Post by Amtrak67 of America » Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:59 pm

Very good point. For some reason as I run trains there, I never really noticed the space for the extra tracks at Scarsdale but looking at satellite views and YouTube videos I can see it wouldnt be hard to do. Honestly the Harlem really needs the 3rd track to south of white plains station.
If there's a steady paycheck in it, I'll believe anything you say.
This is the new Buddsilverliner269.

UpperHarlemLine4ever
Posts: 429
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:29 am
Location: N White Plains, NY

Re: 3rd Track for White Plains

Post by UpperHarlemLine4ever » Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:35 am

Its really needed all the way to North White Plains. It would be self defeating to end ot south of White Plains. Service basically doubles from NWP. To triple track to south of WP would create a bottleneck.

Amtrak67 of America
Posts: 244
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:42 am
Location: Bucks County Pa

Re: 3rd Track for White Plains

Post by Amtrak67 of America » Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:08 pm

Yes it should go to NWP but itll never happen especially with WP station layout and location and the fact that the MTA is pumping loads of money into its reconstruction. I would think that having it go to WP is better than nothing and done right it would work just as well
If there's a steady paycheck in it, I'll believe anything you say.
This is the new Buddsilverliner269.

hs3730
Posts: 179
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:30 pm
Location: Albany NY

Re: 3rd Track for White Plains

Post by hs3730 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:26 pm

The main benefits for a 3rd track are:
(1) to facilitate express trains passing locals
(2) to allow trains to terminate / originate out of the way, and
(3) flexibility for planned (and unplanned) service disruption

Since all but deadheading trains stop at White Plains, and none start there, reducing to 2 tracks for the station isn't that much of an impediment to better service.

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