M8's and Shore Line East

Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

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DutchRailnut
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Re: SLE/CtDOT VRE Virginia Railway Express Mafersa Coaches

Post by DutchRailnut » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:56 pm

maybe he/she is not good at math ?
even two Acela's at 12000 hp per set equals 24 M-8's ?
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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MCL1981
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Re: SLE/CtDOT VRE Virginia Railway Express Mafersa Coaches

Post by MCL1981 » Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:51 am

Could they mean it can only support a 4 car consist at the same time as also supporting other Amtrak trains in the area? Basically, take the total power available, subtract the maximum amount Amtrak could need on their worst day, and what's left is enough to power a 4 car EMU consist. Total BS, but that could be what they're pulling.

NH2060
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Re: SLE/CtDOT VRE Virginia Railway Express Mafersa Coaches

Post by NH2060 » Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:27 pm

First (and not to steal Jeff's thunder!) shouldn't we be discussing this in the M-8 thread?
MCL1981 wrote:Could they mean it can only support a 4 car consist at the same time as also supporting other Amtrak trains in the area? Basically, take the total power available, subtract the maximum amount Amtrak could need on their worst day, and what's left is enough to power a 4 car EMU consist.
+1. Not to mention that Amtrak has plans to add up to 10 more Acela trips on the Shore Line by 2030 which might be the maximum amount of electric service the current infrastructure could handle without upgrading each substation and transformer station (or whatever the smaller ones are called) which would certainly not come cheap. Metro-North after all needed to upgrade the New Haven Line substations to support the M-8s.


But in all fairness to Amtrak would you want foreign electric power that not only would eat into your electric supply, but also require that the pans be lowered and then raised again where the voltage changes just to avoid an explosion? Yes Metro-North lowers it's pans going to and from GCT every single day @ Pelham, but not down and back up again in such a short period of time where there's not much wiggle room (and isn't the changeover in that S-curve cut under I-91?). All it would take is for an engineer to inadvertently forget to drop the pans and... well you can guess the rest.


Let's not rush to judgement and deduce that Amtrak is pulling a fast one. It's their electrification system on their ROW so if they're getting cold feet about having quicker/faster accelerating electric commuter trains running on their tracks there has to be a good reason for that.

MCL1981
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Re: SLE/CtDOT VRE Virginia Railway Express Mafersa Coaches

Post by MCL1981 » Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:24 am

How is it that Amtrak trains can pass through the voltage change so easily. But an EMU will cause an end of days?

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Re: SLE/CtDOT VRE Virginia Railway Express Mafersa Coaches

Post by DutchRailnut » Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:36 am

no EMU's have passed trough voltage gap, other than pulled by diesel and pan down , so how can statements be made by those not part of testing ?
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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MCL1981
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Re: M8's and Shore Line East

Post by MCL1981 » Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:34 am

Huh??? That's not what I asked. I asked why Amtrak trains can pass through the voltage change without a problem.

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Re: M8's and Shore Line East

Post by DutchRailnut » Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:19 pm

And I am saying maybe M-8's can pass without problem, just no one wants to try it.
and most cars are out of warranty now so it might be political/financial problem if they can't do it.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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MCL1981
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Re: M8's and Shore Line East

Post by MCL1981 » Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:42 pm

Oh for god's sake. What are they doing to do, get a running start, lower the pantos, and hope every SLE train coasts through the gap without power?

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Re: M8's and Shore Line East

Post by nomis » Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:01 pm

Sounds just like what they do at some of the bridges :-D :-) :wink:
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Re: M8's and Shore Line East

Post by DutchRailnut » Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:32 pm

correct, not any different from going over cob bridge or any phase gap
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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MCL1981
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Re: M8's and Shore Line East

Post by MCL1981 » Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:31 am

OK, so I'm not getting what the problem is here then. What is this explosion talk??

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Re: M8's and Shore Line East

Post by DutchRailnut » Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:30 am

just talk as always when coasting through the gap, the voltage transition should be automatic.
any time the pantograph does not sense power it should re-sense the voltage and as safeguard put transformer in its highest voltage setting.
if output of transformer is to low it goes to next setting and before MCB is closed it should verify output.

this is what should happen at any phase break, phase gap or power gap, but it still has not been tested with train just with pair.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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MCL1981
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Re: M8's and Shore Line East

Post by MCL1981 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:43 am

I see. So there is nothing unusual or dangerous about it. It's done everywhere else now just fine. Just nobody wants to be pull the short straw and be the first to do it on that one. Great.

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Re: M8's and Shore Line East

Post by Jeff Smith » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:10 pm

Hartford Courant

Brief, fair-use SNIPS; photo from the Courant web-site. Folks, these are ACTUAL SLE passengers. Shouldn't the trains be more crowded? :wink: :
Shore Line East Will Send Trains To Hartford Line, Get New Fleet
...
The state plans to redeploy Shore Line East's worn fleet of diesel locomotives and passenger cars in 2018 to the Hartford Line. They'll be used as part of a high-frequency schedule of shuttle trips on the route between New Haven and Springfield, where there is no catenary to power electric trains.

For Shore Line East patrons, that means the prospect of getting a fresh ride. Once the diesels are on the Hartford Line, the state Department of Transportation intends to start serving Shore Line East with some of its modern, clean fleet of M-8 electric trains.

"The goal is to be running M-8s out to Old Saybrook," Carl Jackson, rail administrator with the DOT, told the Connecticut Public Transportation Commission on Thursday.
...
The DOT is testing M-8s on Shore Line East track to ensure they work seamlessly. The tracks east of New Haven are owned by Amtrak and use a different overhead propulsion system than the one used on the state-owned New Haven Line.

Jackson, who used to work at the Long Island Rail Road, said he could foresee running Old Saybrook-bound trains directly from Grand Central on summer Friday evenings. The Long Island Rail Road's Cannonball from Manhattan to Montauk is so popular that it sells reserved seats, he noted. The Cannonball also runs with high capacity on summer Sunday evenings in the other direction.
...
I'll be posting various snips in the related threads. There were some minor inaccuracies or omissions in the article: they don't mention Stamford, or State St. Also, only to OSB? I know New London needs upgrades before they can handle M8's, so I expected that. So some push/pull equipment will still be needed for SLE.
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MCL1981
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Re: M8's and Shore Line East

Post by MCL1981 » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:26 pm

In my past experience on the SLE (albeit 6 years ago), half train empties out at Branford. The train will be packed solid full of people. Sometimes standing room only. But half the passengers are riding only one stop from New Haven to Branford. Then it's comfortably open the rest of the way. The reason is people from all over the state northeast of New Haven drive to and park at Branford. It's free parking and the shortest train ride. More or less, the SLE is the parking shuttle from Branford to New Haven.

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