M8 Collision in Bridgeport

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gmbfly98
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Re: M8 Collision in Bridgeport

Post by gmbfly98 » Sat May 18, 2013 9:13 am

TomNelligan wrote:
What a mess the NTSB is making out of the New Haven line by holding things up... I'm assuming Metro-North can't tell us whether the bad track was due to the construction in the area or something else yet, as it's a pending federal investigation? They're saying service might not be fully restored by MONDAY!!!! 60 years ago, it would have been up and running tomorrow morning!
I was thinking exactly the same thing. The New Haven RR would have had the New Haven and Oak Point steam-powered derricks cleaning up the mess within a couple hours. Contemporary government bureaucracy is wonderfully efficient, isn't it?
Really? Dozens were injured on one of the most heavily traveled segments of railroad in the US, and you're worried about the Monday morning work commute? Cleaning up the wreck before investigators can examine the site sort of defeats the purpose of them coming out here in the first place. The NTSB is one of the best transportation investigative units in the world, and they'll be well aware of the effect not cleaning up the wreck in a timely manner will have on commuters.

And besides that, the tracks look pretty mangled. I'd actually say if they get things fully restored by Monday, they've done an excellent job. It'll be interesting to hear how the M8 safety features worked out in the end.

CTRailfan
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Re: M8 Collision in Bridgeport

Post by CTRailfan » Sat May 18, 2013 9:16 am

TomNelligan wrote:
What a mess the NTSB is making out of the New Haven line by holding things up... I'm assuming Metro-North can't tell us whether the bad track was due to the construction in the area or something else yet, as it's a pending federal investigation? They're saying service might not be fully restored by MONDAY!!!! 60 years ago, it would have been up and running tomorrow morning!
I was thinking exactly the same thing. The New Haven RR would have had the New Haven and Oak Point steam-powered derricks cleaning up the mess within a couple hours. Contemporary government bureaucracy is wonderfully efficient, isn't it?
Yup. The crazy part is, one of the investigators was on TV quoted as saying "luckily we're not very good at train crashes". Seriously? If they really need a third party that bad to confirm what the MN engineering and maintenance crews determined as the cause of the crash, they could have chartered a flight to get people who actually know trains, like track maintenance people from CSX, NS, or accident clean-up folks from RJ Corman.

They used to have the attitude of "we keep the railroad running come hell or high water" and that seems lacking these days.

It's also unfortunate that it was in a construction area so that they can't use the 1 track or the 3 track to get service back up and running, but that's the nature of dealing with part of the decades of deferred maintenance on a railroad that is so busy... you basically have four tracks so that you can close one or two to work on them.

@25hz: There's really nothing missing, it's just sort of smushed. I'm sure Croton Harmon is just thrilled about this. Not.

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Re: M8 Collision in Bridgeport

Post by runningwithscalpels » Sat May 18, 2013 9:17 am

FWIW: NTSB's twitter says their "go team" is on scene now.
Change at Bridgeport for service to Derby-Shelton, Ansonia, Seymour, Beacon Falls, Naugatuck and Waterbury

CTRailfan
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Re: M8 Collision in Bridgeport

Post by CTRailfan » Sat May 18, 2013 9:20 am

gmbfly98 wrote:
TomNelligan wrote:
What a mess the NTSB is making out of the New Haven line by holding things up... I'm assuming Metro-North can't tell us whether the bad track was due to the construction in the area or something else yet, as it's a pending federal investigation? They're saying service might not be fully restored by MONDAY!!!! 60 years ago, it would have been up and running tomorrow morning!
I was thinking exactly the same thing. The New Haven RR would have had the New Haven and Oak Point steam-powered derricks cleaning up the mess within a couple hours. Contemporary government bureaucracy is wonderfully efficient, isn't it?
Really? Dozens were injured on one of the most heavily traveled segments of railroad in the US, and you're worried about the Monday morning work commute? Cleaning up the wreck before investigators can examine the site sort of defeats the purpose of them coming out here in the first place. The NTSB is one of the best transportation investigative units in the world, and they'll be well aware of the effect not cleaning up the wreck in a timely manner will have on commuters.

And besides that, the tracks look pretty mangled. I'd actually say if they get things fully restored by Monday, they've done an excellent job. It'll be interesting to hear how the M8 safety features worked out in the end.
Absolutely the wreck should be investigated before it is cleaned up. However, that doesn't require federal investigators who don't even know much about trains, or a massive amount of time. If the MN maintenance and engineering crews were doing their jobs, they knew what happened within hours of the wreck.

If anything, the M8's made the jolt worse, as they are so over-engineered to meet the absurd US safety standards that they would act like two rigid bodies hitting each other, with a horrendous jolt, and no crushing of the cars to soften the blow at all. Of course that design is MUCH safer for the engineers too.

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Tommy Meehan
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Re: M8 Collision in Bridgeport

Post by Tommy Meehan » Sat May 18, 2013 9:30 am

There will be a news conference with NTSB investigators in Bridgeport this morning at 11 00 AM.
Officials in Gov. Dannel P. Malloy's office say the governor will meet with representatives from the National Transportation Safety Board and Connecticut's two U.S. senators at the site of a Metro-North Railroad crash that injured 70 people.
Link

Btw on a Facebook page, one rider said that last night his train actually went as far east as Green's Farms and they got bused from there.

TacSupport1
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Re: M8 Collision in Bridgeport

Post by TacSupport1 » Sat May 18, 2013 9:36 am

What benefit would there be just cleaning up this wreck immediately, and restoring service? What would be learned from that? I think thoroughly documenting this incident to see what went wrong to make sure it doesn't happen again is a smart path to take. Also, I'm sure that numerous photos have to be taken, and many tests performed. I'm sure they will get it open as soon as possible, but safety first.

The NTSB team include experts on train collisions that have international training and experience investigating train incidents.
Seth G. Westchester County NY
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CTRailfan
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Re: M8 Collision in Bridgeport

Post by CTRailfan » Sat May 18, 2013 9:42 am

TacSupport1 wrote:What benefit would there be just cleaning up this wreck immediately, and restoring service? What would be learned from that? I think thoroughly documenting this incident to see what went wrong to make sure it doesn't happen again is a smart path to take. Also, I'm sure that numerous photos have to be taken, and many tests performed. I'm sure they will get it open as soon as possible, but safety first.

The NTSB team include experts on train collisions that have international training and experience investigating train incidents.
MN could have done that a lot quicker than these goons from Washington. It doesn't take long to document and snap photos.

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Tommy Meehan
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Re: M8 Collision in Bridgeport

Post by Tommy Meehan » Sat May 18, 2013 10:02 am

I just read some news stories from an on-line news archive about the Jenkins Curve derailment in Bridgeport back in 1955. Ironically the New Haven responded in much the same way. In the hours immediately after the wreck the main line was closed through Bridgeport and the railroad used buses to get people around the tie-up. The buses operated between New Haven and either South Norwalk or Stamford.

Another step the NH took was to reroute certain New York and Boston trains via Danbury and Devon.

One big difference was that there were still four tracks in the area. Two of the tracks were put back in service within about twelve hours. One of the factors there was, much of the damage was away from the main line. Electric power took much longer to restore, reportedly four or five days. A New Haven official E.G. Fisher said that diesel freight locomotives "sent down from Cedar Hill" were used to haul trains from Green's Farms to New Haven.

It's not true, however, that the railroad did the only investigation back then. There was a railroad investigation, of course, but the ICC investigated as well.

NYCrails
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Re: M8 Collision in Bridgeport

Post by NYCrails » Sat May 18, 2013 10:17 am

As an employee of the sister RR , I hope the best for the passengers and the crews in involved. It look bad ,but thank god it wasn't any worse.

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Re: M8 Collision in Bridgeport

Post by AEM7AC920 » Sat May 18, 2013 10:18 am

CTRailfan wrote:
TacSupport1 wrote:What benefit would there be just cleaning up this wreck immediately, and restoring service? What would be learned from that? I think thoroughly documenting this incident to see what went wrong to make sure it doesn't happen again is a smart path to take. Also, I'm sure that numerous photos have to be taken, and many tests performed. I'm sure they will get it open as soon as possible, but safety first.

The NTSB team include experts on train collisions that have international training and experience investigating train incidents.
MN could have done that a lot quicker than these goons from Washington. It doesn't take long to document and snap photos.
Or why don't you get out there and show them how it's done? Just by the statement you made I can tell that you absolutely know nothing about the time and hard work that goes into figuring out the cause of the accident and preventing it from happening again. I'm sorry but that was a completely pathetic statement to refer to the NTSB as "goons."
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Re: M8 Collision in Bridgeport

Post by Ridgefielder » Sat May 18, 2013 10:22 am

Tommy Meehan wrote: Another step the NH took was to reroute certain New York and Boston trains via Danbury and Devon.
That happened more than once over the years. Right now I'm looking at a picture in "Shoreliner" of The Colonial heading through Branchville on a summer day in 1958; I've seen pictures of the UAC TurboTrain in the same location. Shame the Maybrooks o/o/s, would come in handy at a time like this.

truck6018
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Re: M8 Collision in Bridgeport

Post by truck6018 » Sat May 18, 2013 10:42 am

CTRailfan wrote:Has anyone watched the local news stations? They have made a real circus out of this calling it a "major accident" and all sorts of other things.
It is a major accident. The incident involved two trains and hundreds of people with upwards of 70 injured.

CTRailfan wrote:What a mess the NTSB is making out of the New Haven line by holding things up... I'm assuming Metro-North can't tell us whether the bad track was due to the construction in the area or something else yet, as it's a pending federal investigation? They're saying service might not be fully restored by MONDAY!!!! 60 years ago, it would have been up and running tomorrow morning!

Also, which track had the bad track? I've heard conflicting reports about which train/track started this collision, and which one was second.
The NTSB isn't making a mess out of anything. The mess happened before they got involved. It's up to them to determine what went wrong.

There are speculations that it faulty track but there is nothing definite. As you said, there are conflicting reports on which train started the collision. An investigation is in order to determine what happened and to make sure something like this doesn't happen again.

Sadly enough there were injuries, both physically and mentally. It's owed to those involved for a third party investigation to take place.

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Tommy Meehan
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Re: M8 Collision in Bridgeport

Post by Tommy Meehan » Sat May 18, 2013 10:51 am

Another advantage the New Haven had, when they decided to reroute via Danbury and Devon they controlled the entire route. And back then they had catenary all the way to Danbury so they only would've had to use diesels between Danbury and Devon.

I'm curious, the photo of The Colonial operating through Branchville in 1958, was that with an electric locomotive? I can remember seeing The Colonial back in NH days, that was usually a big train too, with Pennsylvania Railroad equipment assigned along with the NH cars.

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Tommy Meehan
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Re: M8 Collision in Bridgeport

Post by Tommy Meehan » Sat May 18, 2013 11:20 am

Btw I just heard from Metro-North. There is no bus shuttle between South Norwalk and Bridgeport at this time.

Apparently what they operated last night was for persons already on trains who were unexpectedly stranded.

TacSupport1
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Re: M8 Collision in Bridgeport

Post by TacSupport1 » Sat May 18, 2013 11:25 am

CTRailfan wrote: MN could have done that a lot quicker than these goons from Washington. It doesn't take long to document and snap photos.
How would MN be able to look at this objectively?

The NTSB is investigating this with the Federal Railroad Administration.

A "go team" aren't "goons from Washington". They are, as I said previously, highly trained and experienced experts who will produce a comprehensive final report on what happened, and make safety reccomendations for the future. They do not make the rules, that is up to the legislators. Amongst some of the rail incidents of recent years that they have investigated include the Washington DC Metro derailment and Los Angeles commuter train collisions. Many of the safety features found on MN trains are a result of NTSB findings.

The NTSB team also is very well equipped, with numerous tools used specifically to investigate incidents such as this.

Metro North will also do their own multi-angle internal investigation.
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