MNRR West of Hudson (WoH) Study - Stewart Airport

Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

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SecaucusJunction
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Post by SecaucusJunction » Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:36 am

On the schedule, NYP to Salisbury is almost 90 minutes. Seems like a lot but anyone going to any area in NYC will have to leave more time than that to get there because of traffic. Service to this area would have to be enhanced because it is now sporadic at best. Depending on ridership, hourly service to that area with express trains through NJ would be ideal, but that is a long way off.

MickD
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Post by MickD » Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:32 pm

I can't see it being worthwhile with for just those two stops. You really don't need a Secaucus stop with the access to EWR from there. I think Ridgewood, Ramsey Park and Ride, Suffern and Tuxedo might be the best bets to draw the patronage the investment into an upgrade in service would merit.

SecaucusJunction
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Post by SecaucusJunction » Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:41 pm

You need a Secaucus stop for people coming from NYC. Ideally, they could build some sort of a monorail/tram from the station to the airport and then just use the line straight through to Port Jervis. Maybe being local south to Suffern, then Rt 17, Ridgewood, Secaucus, Hoboken.

MickD
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Post by MickD » Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:49 pm

SJ:

Do you really think there'd be sufficient patronage from NYC? After all, you've got the Airtrain from Jamaica, which is much easier than transferring at SJ for a 90-plus minute trip upstate. I would think the real market for this would be north from Broadway-Fair Lawn on the Bergen County Line and Paterson on the Main Line. Granted, you'd have to change trains from a lot of these stations at least once, but it'd be easier than SJ to Airtrain at EWR if it ran directly into a platform at Stewart.

Frogger

Post by Frogger » Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:14 pm

The service should be express from Hoboken to Ridgewood and then make local stops from there. You accomplish 2 things. You give better service to Ridgewood north (as in express service hourly) and you give them a one-seat ride to the airport. So a train that leaves Hoboken might have 80% of the people get off during the local stops but you would then have new riders get on at those local stops for the service to Stewart.

The key is to be willing to provide a higher level of service then is warranted while the airport builds. If people know they can get fast hourly service to the airport on the train, it will encourage more people to fly from Stewart and therefore encourage the airlines to fly there.

Realistically the cost of running the extra service I propose might be a few million dollars a year, assuming no additional revenue. That's a very minor investment for the PA to make if they are committed to establishing a 4th major airport.

manhattan exile

Stewart Airport

Post by manhattan exile » Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:34 pm

Service is expanding!!!

JetBlue Airways, begins service to Ft Lauderdale and Orlando, Fl, nonstop flights begin Dec 19.

AirTran will launch new nonstop service from Stewart International Airport to Atlanta, Ft. Lauderdale, Orlando and Tampa, on January 11, 2007.

This is in addition to the service provided by American, NW, and USAIR to some of their hubs.

I'm a happy user of NJT for EWR service and can make it from North Jersey to JFK via NJT and LIRR in about 105 minutes.

Train service (one seat or one seat plus monorail/shuttle) would be a cool option and a virtuous circle to support this airport could take place. Look at how many people take LIRR to Islip for the cheap SWA fares!!!

manhattan exile

Post by manhattan exile » Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:43 pm

They will build a branch to Stewart right after they dust off the plans for the old Westchester Northern and build a branch from White Plains to Westchester County Airport in Purchase...
Otto, the rich NIMBYS up there dont want the riff raff from the City to take PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION to ruin their little airport and,mworse, increase flighst resulting in more noise.

Stewart pop density (or lack thereof) makes this a little easier

SecaucusJunction
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Post by SecaucusJunction » Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:50 am

Again, if people know that cheap service is available, they will run to it. Doesnt matter if it adds another 30 minutes or so to their flight. Look how many people make various connections at different airports to get a cheaper fare. That takes time, but people do it. If Stewart becomes a large airport with many flights to different destinations from airlines with cheaper fares, people WILL use it.

NJTRailfan
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Post by NJTRailfan » Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:13 pm

SecaucusJunction is right. I know quite a few people in Morris Sussex and even Passaic Counties that will drive to ABE rather then EWR to save money and hassle. They really don't care if they have to switch through an airline hub like UAL @ ORD or IAD or AA at DFW or ORD or even DL @ ATL or Cinncinatti. As long as the fares are cheap and the TSA line is not as long or a hassle like EWR, JFK and especially that dump/poor excuse of an airport called LGA then they will go there especially if theres rail service.

Just look at the amount of people that want to fly to London via Gatwick or even Stansted just to avoid London Heathrow congestion and security hassle even though Stansted is an hour by train and Gatwick is litterally out in the middle of no where but like Stansted is accessable via train.
"And remember, you can make a difference."
John Walsh (America's Most Wanted)

MickD
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Post by MickD » Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:43 pm

The potential is there,but for rail service to work I think it has to be direct link .Otherwise the majority of people would probably just drive there to switch to a monorail were one to be built.

SecaucusJunction
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Post by SecaucusJunction » Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:03 pm

No one really wants to drive to an airport if they can help it. You either have to:
  1. Get someone to drive you
  2. Hire a car service
  3. Park there at extremely high rates long term
Given the opportunity, I would think that people would much rather take the train.

MickD
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Post by MickD » Wed Nov 15, 2006 6:08 pm

I tend to agree with you. I'm a former Bergen County resident living in Massachusetts, on Cape Cod. I'm in Boston and pass through South Station quite a bit and I'm looking at the way The Silver Line was conceived. It draws people, but I think would have done much better had it been a direct extension of the Red Line. The same for the Airtrain to JFK—obviously it does well, but had that been direct from from Penn Station down a refurbished Rockaway Branch or had it been built as a new LIRR branch down the same route it follows now, it would do better, probably much better (although there's still the Howard Beach line to consider).

My qualm is with a monorail transfer. It would add unnecessary time to the trip and would detract from the appeal. The market for this is there long term no doubt, but why not make it that much easier if possible?

JLo
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Post by JLo » Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:37 pm

Well, it looks like this project has more legs than many of us thought. The PA has endorsed the concept of making Stewart the 4th Jetport for NY and want a high-speed rail connection.

Star-Ledger
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SecaucusJunction
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Post by SecaucusJunction » Thu Nov 16, 2006 4:11 pm

Well at least someone agrees with me! I'm guessing this could make people's commute shorter as there will be fewer flight delays resulting from congestion in NYC airports. It will probably never be as large as Newark or even LGA, but for long distance flights, it might be a good option. How many people per day use the Newark Airport station?

JoeG

Post by JoeG » Sun Nov 19, 2006 8:57 pm

This improvement at Stewart has been talked about for many years. Incidentally, althought the PJ line passes near the airport, last time this came up I remember seeing there was a big altitude difference between the railroad line and the airport. The most practical thing would be to run a shuttle bus from the nearest PJ line station to the airport. From NYC the travel time would be unacceptable.
Incidentally, Mr Junction, you can take Airtrain to JFK or EWR and so can avoid traffic jams entirely.

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