MNRR West of Hudson (WoH) Study - Stewart Airport

Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

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JoshKarpoff
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Re: Stewart airport/newburgh line

Post by JoshKarpoff » Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:39 am

Don't expect to see construction bid documents anytime soon, let alone a finished extension.
NYSDOT and the Thruway Authority are just now finishing up the rationalization of the I-84/I-87/Rt. 300 interchange.
It has only taken about 10 years to do.
In addition, airlines have been pulling out of Stewart due to a lack of demand.
The PANY/NJ isn't going to shell out the cash unless they have reason to justify the expansion.
At the moment, there isn't any. Maybe sometime in the future, but not in the next decade.

In someways, this is a chicken or the egg sort of deal. The airlines aren't going to use it unless there's sufficient customer demand and an easy way to get there.
Customers aren't going to use it unless there are airlines there that have flights to destinations they want to go to.
This airport is too far north for most people in the region to want to use. It will probably best serve northern Westchester, Putnam, Duchess, Orange, Sullivan and Ulster. These are places with heavy car ownership levels and which I don't see any convenient rail routing for most of them.

This project when it does eventually happen will probably be in conjunction with the Tappan Zee replacement project, if the commuter rail connection is ever built.
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Jeff Smith
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Re: WOH Study - Stewart / Direct NYC Access Public Meeting

Post by Jeff Smith » Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:43 am

An old chestnut resurfaces: Public Information Meeting to be held July 20:

http://www.mta.info/mta/planning/whrtas ... nhouse.pdf
Please join us to see and hear the initial recommendations for a short list of alternatives for improving transit services between central Orange County to Manhattan, as well as improved transit access to Stewart International Airport.
I didn't see in any of the news articles what the "short list" was, and nothing on the doc list:

http://www.mta.info/mta/planning/whrtas/documents.htm

FYI, according to the NYS map, there's a short abandoned stretch past a CSX spurt south of Newburgh that would connect to another stretch off the PJ line near Campbell Hall. I think that would be more useful than any Stewart service, and avoids the busy West Shore/River line.
Next stop, Willoughby
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MTASUPT
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Re: WOH Study - Stewart / Direct NYC Access Public Meeting

Post by MTASUPT » Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:55 am

Lot of valued point made, but a lot of it comes back to replacing what already was there at one point and people without vision removed. Stewart would be a great move to remove the congestion from the City/Newark, but obstacles - Nimby's and tree huggers unite.
"Intelligent management of Railroads must be based upon exact knowledge of facts. Guess work will not do..." VPO NYC 1963

SecaucusJunction
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Re: WOH Study - Stewart / Direct NYC Access Public Meeting

Post by SecaucusJunction » Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:54 am

It's not a terrible idea to have a rail link to Stewart Airport, and with the PA in charge, it will probably get done... eventually. I think they're fooling themselves though, if they think they are going to fill a train with Stewart traffic. They should have a Stewart Airport station just north/west of Salisbury Mills with some sort of a light rail shuttle/monorail connecting it straight inside the airport. That way, the train can continue up to Port Jervis with regular passenger traffic as well. I think this could work well when ARC is opened but you'd probably need at least hourly service for people to feel comfortable enough to use it.
I think it may be possible that NJ Transit might not be the perfect, infallible organization that most people assume it is.

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Re: WOH Study - Stewart / Direct NYC Access Public Meeting

Post by Jeff Smith » Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:49 am

I think service to Newburgh is needed more, and you could use an airport bus shuttle. You even say as much about not filling the train/LRT. Either way, it's still not a one-seat ride, bus or train.

I'm also not sure how the PA can do it in conjunction with NJT and their operating agreement with MNRR; pretty complex. Not only do you have a huge initial capital construction expense (with the EIS process since this is non-existing rail), but then you have an operating deficit to fund as well. It's simply not in MNRR's interest, nor NYS, to spend that type of dough bringing people to a PA operation.

Now, if somehow the PA were to acquire the Main Line (I think MNRR and NJT could use that money), yeah, I could see where that makes sense. I could see Hoboken being the future/focal point of the PA's rail operations in the future.
Next stop, Willoughby
~Jeff Smith (fka "Sarge") :: RAILROAD.NET Site Administrator/Co-Owner

SecaucusJunction
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Re: WOH Study - Stewart / Direct NYC Access Public Meeting

Post by SecaucusJunction » Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:08 pm

Is there the possibility of bringing a station to the city of Newburgh NY?
I think it may be possible that NJ Transit might not be the perfect, infallible organization that most people assume it is.

DutchRailnut
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Re: WOH Study - Stewart / Direct NYC Access Public Meeting

Post by DutchRailnut » Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:23 pm

Its in East Newburgh a.k.a Beacon.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Jeff Smith
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Re: WOH Study - Stewart / Direct NYC Access Public Meeting

Post by Jeff Smith » Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:13 pm

True, Dutch. On a separate note, and in the NYS forum, there's a thread on the Newburgh station; I believed it burned down. But since we're talking about Stewart service and potential alternatives. we'll leave the former station alone here. My suggestion just concerns an old abandoned CSX right of way as an alternative to Stewart service for WOH.
Next stop, Willoughby
~Jeff Smith (fka "Sarge") :: RAILROAD.NET Site Administrator/Co-Owner

Jeff Smith
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Re: WOH Study - Stewart / Direct NYC Access Public Meeting

Post by Jeff Smith » Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:04 pm

Clarification to a previous post; I may have mentioned Campbell Hall. While it's true there are two tracks off of there, they are run by NS, not CSX. The abandoned stretch leads off the Newburgh Industrial Track to around Salisbury Mills.
Next stop, Willoughby
~Jeff Smith (fka "Sarge") :: RAILROAD.NET Site Administrator/Co-Owner

northjerseybuff
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Re: WOH Study - Stewart / Direct NYC Access Public Meeting

Post by northjerseybuff » Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:58 am

so lets assume this project gets the go ahead. What are we talking about in terms of an actual timeline for this project?
"I'm an analog man in a digital world"

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Re: WOH Study - Stewart / Direct NYC Access Public Meeting

Post by Jeff Smith » Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:36 am

I couldn't tell you what the timeline would be, but there's a lot higher priorities, unless the PA goes it alone.
Next stop, Willoughby
~Jeff Smith (fka "Sarge") :: RAILROAD.NET Site Administrator/Co-Owner

SecaucusJunction
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Re: WOH Study - Stewart / Direct NYC Access Public Meeting

Post by SecaucusJunction » Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:43 am

It was my understanding that PA was planning this, pretty much by themselves. Nevertheless, they also have bigger things on their mind. I don't think that airport has much expanding usage right about now.
I think it may be possible that NJ Transit might not be the perfect, infallible organization that most people assume it is.

metrony
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Re: WOH Study - Stewart / Direct NYC Access Public Meeting

Post by metrony » Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:06 pm

SecaucusJunction wrote:It was my understanding that PA was planning this, pretty much by themselves. Nevertheless, they also have bigger things on their mind. I don't think that airport has much expanding usage right about now.
Before the recession hit many people had whole kinds of ideas with the ridership levels increasing every year and the demand growing. It was also the reason why the Beacon/Newburgh shuttle bus started on the weekends. Now with the economy still weak things have slowdown a bit on the expansion process.

Anyone know how the Beacon/Newburgh shuttle bus is doing to Stewart especially on the weekends?

SecaucusJunction
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Re: WOH Study - Stewart / Direct NYC Access Public Meeting

Post by SecaucusJunction » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:04 pm

If anyone is bored tonight, there is a meeting regarding the Stewart Rail Link in Newburgh...

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/arti ... iled-today


Here is another short article...

http://www.midhudsonnews.com/News/2010/ ... 3Jul10.htm

This is my favorite quote of the story from Charles Schumer:
"He is also pushing for commuter rail service from Stewart to New York City.
“Once that happens that will be a huge shot in the arm and Stewart will just take off,” he said. "

Really?


-- Edited to give credit to quote
Last edited by SecaucusJunction on Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I think it may be possible that NJ Transit might not be the perfect, infallible organization that most people assume it is.

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Re: WOH Study - Stewart / Direct NYC Access Public Meeting

Post by umtrr-author » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:08 pm

And let's not leave out who said this: Our own Senator Schumer.

Referring to the second piece cited about, where exactly is this "Bronx Queens Expressway" to which Route 17 is being compared...

...another Journalism Fail.
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