South Side equipment restrictions

Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

Moderators: CRail, sery2831

Mbtagp40mc
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 3:47 pm

South Side equipment restrictions

Post by Mbtagp40mc » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:20 am

Just curious anyone knows...

When's the last time the original F40PH's ran on the south side in revenue service? Also, when is the last time the 1600's were used as an actual cab car in revenue service down south?

-P

Trinnau
Posts: 495
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:27 pm

Re: South Side equipment restrictions

Post by Trinnau » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:54 pm

1600s were used as recently as this past fall in the South. If you didn't know, the PTC project has upgraded the entire fleet so it can run on the South. With the retirement of the original Screamers or the 1600s were lacking PTC equipment, which is now no longer the case.

Don't know when the screamers last ran on the South Side though, if at all. They never had cab signal equipment nevermind PTC.

chrisf
Posts: 351
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 9:35 pm

Re: South Side equipment restrictions

Post by chrisf » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:18 pm

The “screamers” ran for more than 20 years on the south side. The link below shows 1012 in Worcester in 2001 but they likely didn’t stay south much longer than that, and most likely never ran on the electrified Northeast Corridor.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=3274150" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The 1600s have not run as control coaches on the south side in many years either, most likely on about the same time frame as the F40s but I can’t find any evidence of that.

AmtrakLocomotiveEngineer
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:46 pm

Re: South Side equipment restrictions

Post by AmtrakLocomotiveEngineer » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:58 pm

Trinnau wrote:
Don't know when the screamers last ran on the South Side though, if at all. They never had cab signal equipment nevermind PTC.
That's not true. They did have cab signals.

Tom coughlin
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:13 am
Location: Stow, Massachusetts

Re: South Side equipment restrictions

Post by Tom coughlin » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:44 am

All of the cab control cars when delivered new were equipped with cab signals as well (including the RDC's - "Boise Budds" rebuilt into unpowered coaches by Morrison Knudson).

From memory, this is a historical look at road power used by the T that didn't have cab signals.

- All B&M RDC's except one (6124?; this one was used frequently on the Shore Line)
- All leased GO cab control cars (one set did run in Providence service but was "top-and-tailed" with FP10's)
- The D&H PA's (used mostly on the Framingham; they were used on Providence runs trailing E8's)
- The B&M GP-7's leased for the North Side service or B&M GP-9's used on the Framingham Line and possibly the Needham Line in '77-'78.
- MBTA RDC 55 which was originally NYC M455; as I recall, Penn Central moved this car from Ann Arbor/Detroit service to Boston when the former was annulled. It ran on the Needham line until that line was closed for the SW corridor construction and the Framingham Line, then used on the Back Bay shuttle or in the middle of a consist with cab signal equipped RDC's. I was surprised to see it in the middle of a consist in Sharon during the early summer of 1980.
- All of the SEPTA, NJTransit and Canadian Pacific RDC's acquired second hand or leased.

The Franklin and Stoughton Line trains needed cab signal equipment because these trains run on the Shore Line to get to the branches. Framingham and Needham trains did not. Needham trains would typically run on Track 3 to Forest Hills which wasn't equipped with cab signals back then.

When the SW Corridor was under constructions, trains were re-routed for 9 years over the current Fairmont Line. This line got cab signals for the first time when rehabbed for this service.

Speaking of historic South Side equipment restrictions, trains equipped with Pullman Standard push pull equipment (now the "200's") were limited to 30MPH while passing under the Washington St overpass in Dorchester in both directions as well as Canton Viaduct, track 1, due to clearance issues.

Tom Coughlin
Stow, MA

CRail
Posts: 2374
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 8:27 am
Location: Eastie

Re: South Side equipment restrictions

Post by CRail » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:13 pm

Trinnau wrote:Don't know when the screamers last ran on the South Side though, if at all. They never had cab signal equipment nevermind PTC.
They had cab signals and ACSES just like every other engine in the fleet. The last screamer to run south was the 1013, which was relatively very recent (within 5 years of retirement), but I don't remember when specifically.
Moderator: Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority
Avatar:3679A (since wrecked)/3623B (now in service as 3636B).

Robert Paniagua
Posts: 4432
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:11 am
Location: Weymouth, MA 02188

Re: South Side equipment restrictions

Post by Robert Paniagua » Tue May 07, 2019 8:54 am

There is at least one 1600 control cab car still in use as such that can run in the Southside especially the Providence/Stoughton Line and elsewhere Southside. That would be control car 1649 since it was equipped with ACSES to enable it to be used down south. They should consider transferring 1649 to the Southside
~Robert Paniagua
Moderator: WMATA :: General Railroad Operations

CRail
Posts: 2374
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 8:27 am
Location: Eastie

Re: South Side equipment restrictions

Post by CRail » Tue May 07, 2019 10:37 pm

With the PTC mods they are now all ACSES and suppression equipped. They will probably still remain north, though, because they're single level.
Moderator: Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority
Avatar:3679A (since wrecked)/3623B (now in service as 3636B).

Martin Baumann
Posts: 157
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:05 pm

Re: South Side equipment restrictions

Post by Martin Baumann » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:58 pm

chrisf wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:18 pm
The “screamers” ran for more than 20 years on the south side. The link below shows 1012 in Worcester in 2001 but they likely didn’t stay south much longer than that, and most likely never ran on the electrified Northeast Corridor.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=3274150" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The 1600s have not run as control coaches on the south side in many years either, most likely on about the same time frame as the F40s but I can’t find any evidence of that.
I rode behind 1013 from Back Bay to South Station 7/22/2003

sonicdoommario
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:14 pm

Re: South Side equipment restrictions

Post by sonicdoommario » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:21 pm

A month or so ago 1645 ran down south, I think it only ran on the Old Colony Lines though (which don't come in contact with the NEC, right?).

Tom coughlin
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:13 am
Location: Stow, Massachusetts

Re: South Side equipment restrictions

Post by Tom coughlin » Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:01 pm

I thought I’d mention that the Fitchburg Route required cab signals up until the early 70’s. Most if not all B&M Buds cars were equipped. This was a different system than the one used on the Shoreline. I mention it here because this system was used into the MBTA years ( but before the T purchased the B&M’s trackage and Budds in 1976)

Tom Coughlin
Stow, MA

GP40MC1118
Posts: 3642
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:06 pm

Re: South Side equipment restrictions

Post by GP40MC1118 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:02 pm

These were the known RDC-1's equipped for the Fitchburg Route when it had cab signals:

6100,6101,6104,6105,6146,6147,6148,6153,6155,6156

D

Tom coughlin
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:13 am
Location: Stow, Massachusetts

Re: South Side equipment restrictions

Post by Tom coughlin » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:47 pm

Not as many RDC’s equipped for the Fitchburg as I thought. Thanks, D

Tom Coughlin
Stow, MA

MBTA3247
Posts: 2739
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:01 pm
Location: Milton

Re: South Side equipment restrictions

Post by MBTA3247 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:56 pm

They wouldn't necessarily need to equip all the RDCs with cab signals. With 3+ car trains, only the cars at either end would need them.
"The destination of this train is [BEEP BEEP]" -announcement on an Ashmont train.

User avatar
StefanW
Posts: 543
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 pm
Location: Lynn, MA / MP 11.53

Re: South Side equipment restrictions

Post by StefanW » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:51 pm

Tom coughlin wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:01 pm
I thought I’d mention that the Fitchburg Route required cab signals up until the early 70’s. Most if not all B&M Buds cars were equipped. This was a different system than the one used on the Shoreline. I mention it here because this system was used into the MBTA years ( but before the T purchased the B&M’s trackage and Budds in 1976)
I didn't know the Fitchburg line had cab signals, and I'm even more surprised that they were a different type / system than south.

How did they differ?
The Blue Line is good for Lynn, and Lynn is good for the Blue Line.

My live MBTA real-time mapping apps:
https://sites.harvard.edu/~wuensch/T/subway-map.html
https://sites.harvard.edu/~wuensch/T/commuter-rail-map.html

Return to “Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority (MBTA)”