Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

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benboston
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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Post by benboston » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:17 pm

I've got to say this would have been useful during the parade. I heard that they stopped selling and checking tickets because the trains were so full!

rethcir
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Re: CharlieCard / Ticket discussion

Post by rethcir » Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:29 pm

It looks like the plans for CR fare gates at North Station, South Station and Back Bay are moving forward.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2019/ ... story.html

johnpbarlow
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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Post by johnpbarlow » Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:55 am

I wonder how these gates can be set up at South Station given the platform area in front of the head house is used by lots of non-MBTA patrons to get to their places of work or the bus station?

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BandA
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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Post by BandA » Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:25 pm

It's going to be a cluster! You will have to allow extra time for waiting in line at the fare gates. So what will you do, show your timed fare receipt to the conductor? Will the fare gates give you a receipt??

RenegadeMonster
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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Post by RenegadeMonster » Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:58 pm

The fare gates will not give you a receipt. You cannot pay your fare at them.

It requires that you purchase a ticket prior to entering the platform. There will no longer be the option of purchasing the ticket on the train if you are running to catch that train last minute.

From what I read in the globe article, the gates will be no different than the ticket checkers at the door. They are not collecting your fare, only validating that you have a fare.

The conductors will still need to verify everyone on the train has the proper fare.

So plan on getting to the Boston stations 5 to 10 minutes earlier than you usually do now once they are installed. You don't want to get stuck in a line at fare gates trying to board your train during the final boarding call. They will not hold the trains for you. Granted, if they board late I'm sure they would wait until everyone has stopped pouring onto the platform and boarded.

They are hoping people can adjust easily to making new habits to get there a few minutes earlier and to buying tickets before getting on the trains.

Arlington
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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Post by Arlington » Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:42 pm

RenegadeMonster wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:58 pm
So plan on getting to the Boston stations 5 to 10 minutes earlier than you usually do now once they are installed.
Sorry, what are you advising the 5 to 10 minutes for?

From pictures, I'd expect something like 10-abreast simultaneous throughput, which is more than can walk abreast out a platform. In other words, the fare gate barriers will likely have more throughput than the barrier-free platform itself (and on par with the sliding doors to the waiting areas). Since trains stagger in departure, I'd expect that as long as first boarding calls are spaced 1 min apart (like they usually are) the "initial clog" for any one trip is unlikely to last more than a minute and unlikely to overlap between any 2 trains.

Swag that a cycle at a gate is 6 seconds: 1) approach, 2)pay fare, 3)gates open, 4)walk through, 5)exit gate, 6)gate closes, repeat. Every 10 gates can process 100 people in every minute. The picture suggests that they'll fit probably 10 on each side (Summer, Atlantic) and I'd have to bet another 30 "in the middle". 40 gates would process 400 in a minute and a whole 1400 person train in 3minutes 30 seconds.

All London commuter rail is now tap-in / tap-out, where your phone,, tap card, or tap-enabled bank card can be tapped on a NFC sensor, or you insert your paper ticket (mag stripe) into a reader. Works just like Charlie Card/Ticket on the Subway, except the fare media is more varied. it didn't add any time that I could detect to my trail trips. How many extra minutes do you allow for that? Maybe an extra .5 minutes?

In England you use your fare media for platform access. It is a guarantee that you've at least paid your "Zone 1A" fare (just like the human inspections today).

People will simply have to either use the ticket or card media the have, or be sure to display the QR Code on their phone (instead of the dancing-colored-bars view they show conductors)
Last edited by Arlington on Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RenegadeMonster
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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Post by RenegadeMonster » Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:47 pm

I was referring to North Station.

It sounds like they will be install fare gates along the wall right in front of the platform entrances. So like when we have the ticket checkers now, everyone is being funneled through the gates in front of the platform being called. You wouldn't be able to pass through the fare gates until after the train starts boarding as well.

For Back Bay you would be right. You have to pass through the gates before you get into the lobby.

For South Station, they have not finalized where the fare gates are going to be located.

Arlington
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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Post by Arlington » Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:51 pm

RenegadeMonster wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:47 pm
I was referring to North Station.
Why isn't the more reasonable assumption that they'd put them at North Station on the yellow line on the floor that is the "wait behind this line"?
And could put a long row of them, not just "per gate"?
"Trying to solve congestion by making roadways wider is like trying to solve obesity by buying bigger pants."--Charles Marohn

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StefanW
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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Post by StefanW » Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:56 pm

Scroll down to page 8 and you'll see that the gates are proposed for around the perimeter. I'm not sure how the vendors are going to feel about that though.

https://cdn.mbta.com/sites/default/file ... ssible.pdf
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Arlington
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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Post by Arlington » Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:58 pm

I hate RR.net's policy of 800 pixels. Can someone please send management a Mailgram or Pony Express?

Plenty of great images for North Station here, but since they can't be viewed on a Windows 95 Machine, they're not supported on rr.net
https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/ ... fare-gates
"Trying to solve congestion by making roadways wider is like trying to solve obesity by buying bigger pants."--Charles Marohn

RenegadeMonster
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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Post by RenegadeMonster » Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:04 pm

Hmm,

Is that the most up to date proposal?

Actually, the Globe just says along "the wall" for the locations of the fare gates.

I guess "the wall" wasn't clear enough and lead me to believe it was the wall along the platforms.

Arlington
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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Post by Arlington » Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:14 pm

so I count 30 gates in this diagram (with the option for more, I suppose)
At 10 people per minute, that's 300 per minute, or 18,000 per hour throughput on the gates.

And I'll wage the vendors *like* it. Since it'll likely decrease vagrancy and increase proven spending power per occupant.
"Trying to solve congestion by making roadways wider is like trying to solve obesity by buying bigger pants."--Charles Marohn

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StefanW
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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Post by StefanW » Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:48 pm

Arlington wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:14 pm
so I count 30 gates in this diagram (with the option for more, I suppose)
At 10 people per minute, that's 300 per minute, or 18,000 per hour throughput on the gates.

And I'll wage the vendors *like* it. Since it'll likely decrease vagrancy and increase proven spending power per occupant.
Very interesting point about the vendors! I hadn't thought of that.

Speaking of the vendors, the highlighted "bar access" in that diagram seems either unrealistic (safety hazard if that becomes the _only_ access to the fenced-in bar) or the new preferred route for attempted fare evasion.

Anyone know what is the throughput on the current MBTA Scheidt & Bachmann fare gates?
The Blue Line is good for Lynn, and Lynn is good for the Blue Line.

My live MBTA real-time mapping apps:
https://sites.harvard.edu/~wuensch/T/subway-map.html
https://sites.harvard.edu/~wuensch/T/commuter-rail-map.html

sicariis
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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Post by sicariis » Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:57 pm

So multiple scans will be required for parties traveling on 1 Amtrak ticket or those activating multiple mTickets on a single device? Similar to paying for others using a single Charlie card for the T.

ssresident
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Re: Ring of Steel: Fare Gates at BOS, BON, & BBY

Post by ssresident » Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:25 am

https://twitter.com/streamside1070/stat ... 19680?s=20

So how strictly is this enforced? Would the T be able to get some sort of exception/waiver to install gates?

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