The East Side Access Project Discussion (ESA)

[Herring]

East Side Access - 9/11/2015 Update

[lpetrich]

Going to mta.info | Capital Programs East Side Access again, I noted that they were up to 2015 Q2.

• Manhattan South Structures (CM005), Manhattan North Structures (CM006) -- in mid-construction (current targets: May 2016, May 2017)
• 55th Street Vent Plant Facility (CM013A) -- should be done by October
• GCT Concourse and Facilities Fit-Out Early Work (CM014A) -- should be done by the end of this year
• GCT Concourse and Facilities Fit-Out (CM014B) -- started early this year
• Escalators and elevators (VM014) -- construction 16% complete (installation a separate phase)
• Plaza Substation and Queens Structures (CQ032) -- in mid-construction (target: March 2016)
• Harold Structures (CH053) -- should be done by the end of this year
• Harold Structures (CH054A) -- should be done by the end of this year
• Harold Structures / Amtrak (FHA01) -- very nearly done, but the last bit is taking longer than expected
• Harold Structures / Amtrak (FHA02) -- very nearly done, but the last bit is taking longer than expected
• Harold Structures / LIRR (FHL01) -- very nearly done, but the last bit is taking longer than expected
• Harold Structures / LIRR (FHL02) -- largely done, will take a few more years
• Harold Structures - Part 3A (CH057A) -- looks like it will be done by the end of next year

PDF page 27 has a nice diagram of the project. The concourse is right under some of the MNR upper tracks, and the LIRR tracks are well below both MNR levels.

[Jeff Smith]

Amtrak's holding things up, according to MTA Chief: Newsday

Amtrak's lack of cooperation will delay East Side Access, MTA says

...
Critical construction work planned at the busy Harold Interlocking in Queens has fallen months behind schedule because Amtrak, which shares use of the rail junction, has not provided the necessary workers or track time, Metropolitan Transportation Authority officials said at a recent meeting of their capital program oversight committee.
...
Since June, progress at Harold has fallen three months behind schedule. And, if not addressed, the Amtrak problems "have the potential to delay" East Side Access' projected December 2022 completion date, according to the MTA.

"Certainly, the one dogged problem we've had over the last 18 months is the Amtrak resources issue," MTA chairman and CEO Thomas Prendergast said during a discussion of delays on the $10.2 billion East Side Access project. "It's time for another meeting on the mound. We're just getting further and further delayed."

Amtrak has a big project, too. Some of the problems have arisen from what Prendergast called "competing priorities" between the two railroads. Amtrak's own major construction project at the Harold site -- the ongoing rehabilitation of the East River tunnels into and out of Penn Station -- has sapped the resources also needed for the East Side Access project.
...
As one example of the delays, East Side Access project executive Bill Goodrich said that on 14 out of 19 weekends since April, one MTA-hired contractor has been unable to do any scheduled work on building a new "bypass" tunnel at Harold Interlocking. That work is now 11 months behind schedule.

[Frank]

I hope they resolve that issue soon.

[philipmartin]

East side access, NbcNewyork.com. http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/MT ... 56972.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[philipmartin]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ntral.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/photo-ess ... nstruction" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Herring]

MTA Video Release: East Side Access GCT Floor Breaking

[Crabman1130]

MTA Video Release: East Side Access GCT Floor Breaking

If you skip ahead to 18:00 you can watch them unsuccessfully try to break through.

[Yellowspoon]

I'm from out-of-town and maybe this question was considered years ago: Why didn't they dig a tunnel from Hunters Point to GCT?

I came to NYC back in September and took the ESA tour. This thing is massive. Only then, did I learn that the 63rd street tunnel was originally slated to run NYCTA cars and that most LIRR cars would not fit in the tunnel. So I looked at a map. From Sunnyside yard to GCT is 4.6km (via 63rd street & Park Avenue) Even if one considers that the km under the east river is already dug, that's still 3.5 km of digging. However, from Hunter's point to GCT is only 2.4km.

I assume this alternative was considered and rejected.

[DutchRailnut]

you need room for the ramps to get down to level were
lirr will be and the 63th street tunnel was already in existence.

[Head-end View]

Dutch, you're saying the extra mileage is needed so the ramps can be longer and not too steep of a grade. Is that right?

[DutchRailnut]

correct the LIRR tracks are over 100 feet under lower level of GCT

[Tommy Meehan]

There's two points I would add:

First, the 63rd Street tunnel was planned and built as a double-level tunnel to be used by NY City Transit subway trains on the upper level and Long Island Rail Road trains on the lower level. The lower level tunnels were designed to accommodate LIRR M-series MU cars. This is from the October 11, 1973 edition of the New York Times:

Crouching close together deep under Welfare Island [today called Roosevelt Island] yesterday, Governor Rockefeller, Mayor Lindsay and Dr. William J. Ronan, chairman of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, touched off an explosive charge that marked the official "holing through" of the 63rd Street tunnel. The $69.5-million tunnel eventually will carry both Long Island Rail Road and New York City subway trains between Queens and Manhattan. Link to Times article

The second point is, at the time the tunnel was being planned the location of the new Long Island Rail Road East Side terminal was not yet Grand Central Terminal; it was to have been built at E. 48th Street and Third Avenue.

[Jeff Smith]

It's a shame it wasn't done then; real estate was MUCH cheaper. I remember the plans for a separate terminal as well. I'm not sure what the cost differential would have been had they stuck to that plan. It seems like much of the difficulty of the project has been at Sunnyside.

[DutchRailnut]

just look at tunnels at NYP what difference a few years makes in American Peso's .