Rail Diesel Cars

Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

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jayrmli
Posts: 1761
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:23 pm
Location: Moriches, NY

Re: RDC's

Post by jayrmli »

Wheels wear unevenly sometimes due to curves. This is why you would optimally want to do this. In most cases though, it's easier to maintain the rest of the cars if they are all facing the same direction (i.e. emptying toilets, etc.).

Jay
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RGlueck
Posts: 729
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:59 pm

Re: RDC's

Post by RGlueck »

In considering this two things present themselves to me. First, Budd Cars were warranted, conditional to their only being coupled to other Budd Cars. They were never to be used in combination with standard coaches, or hauled in revenue service as coaches. This was violated on almost every railroad that ever owned them, including the LIRR. I have seen pictures of a single P54 hauled by a single Budd Car. Second, a fleet of twenty wouldn't have been very useful during rush hour, where trains of 12 cars were the rule on the Port Jeff line and elsewhere. With tons of spare cash to invest in them, RDC's would have been the ideal bi-directional coach during mid-day service, but Diesels hauling standard steel coaches in rotation had to make more sense. Ziel and Foster state that the Long Island almost bought surplus Budd Cars from the B&M, as their passenger service dwindled. New Haven used them well along the myriad branch lines across Connecticut. They just weren't practical for heavy suburban service.

keyboardkat
Posts: 997
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:00 pm
Location: Ocean County, NJ

Re: RDC's

Post by keyboardkat »

RGlueck wrote:In considering this two things present themselves to me. First, Budd Cars were warranted, conditional to their only being coupled to other Budd Cars. They were never to be used in combination with standard coaches, or hauled in revenue service as coaches. This was violated on almost every railroad that ever owned them, including the LIRR. I have seen pictures of a single P54 hauled by a single Budd Car. Second, a fleet of twenty wouldn't have been very useful during rush hour, where trains of 12 cars were the rule on the Port Jeff line and elsewhere. With tons of spare cash to invest in them, RDC's would have been the ideal bi-directional coach during mid-day service, but Diesels hauling standard steel coaches in rotation had to make more sense. Ziel and Foster state that the Long Island almost bought surplus Budd Cars from the B&M, as their passenger service dwindled. New Haven used them well along the myriad branch lines across Connecticut. They just weren't practical for heavy suburban service.
The B&M had 79 RDCs, later supplemented by a number of cabless single-engine RDC-9s. They operated their entire Boston commuter service with them, except for, I think, one round trip covered by their ACF Talgo train (with FM Speed Merchants at each end) after it was bumped from long distance service. One winter, the Talgo did, to quote the railroad, "At terrific job," actually clearing the iron of snow for the lighter RDCs.
The New Haven also operated their whole Boston commuter service with RDCs. This is what freed up the 30 or so "American Flyer" cars from the B&M for purchase by the LIRR.
Now, the LIRR with twenty RDCs would probably have not have had enough to cover the off-peak weekday service in diesel territory. If you figure off peak service on the OB branch would have required six of them (three pairs in alternating round trips), that leaves fourteen for the PJ and RO lines. Weekends, might have been a bit different. An engineering study might have had to be done, to find the optimal and most efficient use of the RDCs, where best to use them, which runs would benefit most from them. Of course twenty of them would not have been nearly enough for rush hour service, but they would have had full employement, I should think, during peak and off-peak hours if they were used intelligently. Perhaps more than twenty would have been optimal. But I also think the LIRR must have figured, they have their locomotives, and they should use them rather than letting them sit around eating up lease/purchase payments.
Incidentally, I think the LIRR also abused the two RDCs and additionally voided their warranty by running the two cars on three engines instead of four to save fuel.
Fairbanks-Morse forever!

nyandw
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Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:41 am

Re: RDC's

Post by nyandw »

Doc Emmet Brown wrote:From Long island places that are no more, via arrts arrchives
supposed to be the creedmore spur east of the cross island.
Must have been a fan trip.

Image

Doc: Remember the location/link Art has this on? Thanks!

nyandw
Posts: 3820
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:41 am

Re: RDC's

Post by nyandw »

baileyjet2000 wrote:It was a fan trip back in 1955 if I recall. I was on that trip and still have the brochure for it. I'll have to dig it out. The trip covered quite a few destinations including the Creedmoor branch as well as belmont park. I'll have to find the trip brochure adn look them up. Ray J Ft Myers, FL
Ray: I'm looking up the 1956 and 1957 trip info. Folks, any other info on that fan trip?

Backshophoss
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Re: RDC's

Post by Backshophoss »

Mr Lynch,Try CRRof LI,creedmoor branch in Arrts Archives
I have bad luck with links.
The Land of Enchantment is not Flyover country!

Doc Emmet Brown
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Location: Hill Valley, (Or somewhere in Time)

Re: RDC's

Post by Doc Emmet Brown »

Marty, It runs on steam!

baileyjet2000
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:25 pm
Location: Ft. Myers, FL

Re: RDC's

Post by baileyjet2000 »

The location is just of the overpass on the Cross Island parkway in Bellrose. The other side of the parkway was the location of St Geralds RC church. Just to the right out of the picture was its grammer school. Although its been many a year I believe they are still there. The overpass is still there, I don't know if its a road now or just a pathway. I still have the trip brochure and will have to dig it out and see where else we went to. I remember some destinations but not all. There was some (at least we would consider today) rare milage involved on routes that are no longer in existance. I'll try and look tonight.

All the best,

Ray J in Ft Myers

Crabman1130
Posts: 906
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:00 am

Re: RDC's

Post by Crabman1130 »

In the picture with the RDC the overpass looks twice the size of the 88th Road pathway shown on Google Earth.

I think the overpass has been eliminated.

Also it's St Gregory the Great School.

baileyjet2000
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:25 pm
Location: Ft. Myers, FL

Re: RDC's

Post by baileyjet2000 »

I dug out the brochure for this trip and the date was Sunday April 27, 1957. The trip covered according to the cover the Creedmoor branch, Evergreen, Bushwick, Ozone Park, North side Division. If my memory is not failing me we also went to Bay Ridge and Belmont Park. I can't remember if we took the Hempstead Branch or the Main Line and went across from Mineola or went out at Country Life press, but we did cover the West hempstead branch. On the North Shore we went down Swift Siding and also the Whitestone Branch to the end of track at the Flushing River.

Regrads the overpass in Bellrose I am pretty sure it is still there as the Cross island is a major artery and it was still there the last time I was on it, which is probably about 12 years ago. But I could be wrong and maybe they replaced it with a new span. Thanks for the clarification on St Gregory's. I remember years ago they used to have outdoor masses on Sunday. I still recall one day seeing a Alco in back of the church with several cars. Don't know which way it was going as that is lost in time. Possibly picking up cars at the hospital and or Frank Smith coal company.
If anyone has further info I would like to hear about them.

All the best,

Ray in Ft Myers

Crabman1130
Posts: 906
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:00 am

Re: RDC's

Post by Crabman1130 »

Try looking on Google Earth. It's pretty easy to follow the old ROW. You better than I could tell if the Cross Island was filled in. I never saw it back then. and I bet you'd get a kick out of seeing the changes to the neighborhood.
If you do please let us know what you can tell.
Thanks.

nyandw
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Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:41 am

Re: RDC's

Post by nyandw »


Thanks Doc!

workextra
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Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:56 pm

Re: RDC's

Post by workextra »

Just north of 88th RD there is a pedestrian walkway under the CIP. On Google street view It appears to have been the branch but it's much narrower.
Looking at the OP's pic I without going to the location I would have to make a guess that the City narrowed the bridge and put new facade on the ends making it look more like portals.
To remove the span completely would require fill and shutting down the CIP completely during the work. I highly doubt that did that.
Google Maps also shows that the branch as badly needed for a Jamaica By Pass would not be a very easy pill for many to swallow. There is hardly any remains of it If you don't know what your looking at.

As for the Historical purpose. Maybe a group could get together and put Historical Markers Along the ROW indicating it's former route. before it becomes nothing more then a writing and far from a memory.

alchemist
Posts: 227
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:25 pm
Location: Bayside, NY

Re: RDC's

Post by alchemist »

Indeed, the underpass is still there, altho reduced in size from when it had to clear railcars. It's important - the only way to travel from the eastern and western parts of St. Gregory's campus without a major detour. On an earlier topic, remember that the RDCs, in addition to being lightweights, had disc brakes instead of tread brakes, so the wheel treads weren't cleaned and polished by brakeshoes and didn't make as good electrical contact.
The Alchemist
*All is potentially gold*

jhdeasy
Posts: 2109
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:16 pm
Location: Mount Vernon, Virginia, USA

Re:

Post by jhdeasy »

Dave Keller wrote:Here’s the scoop on the LIRR Budd RDCs:

RDC2, #3121 (with baggage compartment), was built by Budd in 3/55 and given LIRR modernization #1

#3121 was traded to the B&O for their closed-end observation car “Napannee” in 7/68.

Dave Keller
Image
I recently had a chance to talk with William Howes, retired B&O/C&O VP Passenger Services, at an AAPRCO event; he confirmed that B&O traded bedroom-lounge-observation NAPANEE to LIRR for RDC 3121. I don't know if 3121 is still around, but NAPANEE is still with us, although in poor overall condition.

http://www.dominionrailvoyages.com/jhd/ ... nsett.html

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